#45 - Stronger Communities, Safer Lives: Inside Suicide Prevention | Bradley Dunn

The scariest part about suicide risk is how often it hides in plain sight. People expect clear warning signs, but what shows up more often are small changes: someone goes quiet, stops turning up, withdraws from what they love, or feels like a burden. We sit with that reality and focus on what actually helps, not perfect words, just a real connection.

I’m joined by Simone Stanley (Plan Tracker) to ground the conversation in the human layer behind the numbers, then Bradley Dunn, CEO of the Lake Macquarie and Newcastle Suicide Prevention Network, shares what community-led suicide prevention looks like when it moves beyond awareness. We talk about National Hope Week, the power of simple messages like Newy Loves You, and why campaigns work best when they give people practical ways to reach out, volunteer, fundraise, and learn mental health first aid or suicide awareness skills.

Bradley also breaks down the biggest barrier many people face: access. We explore the Evolve Mental Health and Wellbeing Hub, a welcoming walk-in space designed to reduce friction, offer a broad mix of services, and provide free ongoing support with no wait list or eligibility criteria. We also cover outreach through a mental health checkpoint at events and markets, making check-ins feel normal and easy.

If you or someone you know is struggling, you are not alone, and support is available. Listen, share this with someone you care about, and please subscribe and leave a review so more people can find these conversations when they need them most.

Shownote Links:

Kahi Simon Suicide Prevention Fundraiser

Transcript

Why These Conversations Matter

Leon Goltsman 0:00

Hello and welcome back to Engaging Conversations. I'm your host, Leon Goltsman, and this program explores the mindset of people and organisations building stronger communities, leading with purpose and turning challenges into meaningful impact. Because whether it's in business, community, or life, the real differentiator is how we turn up for others. Today's conversation focuses on something that affects every community in Australia. And while it can be a confronting topic, it can also be one where real change is happening through connection, awareness, and action. And to help frame this conversation, I'm joined by special guest Simone Stanley from Plan Tracker, who works closely with people accessing support services and someone who sees firsthand the real impact of connection and care in our communities. Simone, thank you so much for joining us. We often hear the statistics around suicide, but what's often missing is the human story behind them. Don't you agree?

Simone Stanley 0:59

Absolutely. There's a big misunderstanding that people expect it to be obvious and that you'll see someone struggling, but the truth is we actually don't see that.

Leon Goltsman 1:09

Why do you think conversations like this, the ones that we're having, are so important right now?

Simone Stanley 1:15

Mental health challenges don't always look the way we expect it to be. And so therefore it's easy to make assumptions that it only affects a certain type of person, but the reality isn't it doesn't discriminate. It can touch anyone, any family, and any community. And that's why it's so often missing that we need that human layer, the stories, the nuances, and the understanding behind the statistics and understanding how community and connection as a whole is so important. In 2024, let alone, over 3,300 Australians died by suicide, which is roughly eight to nine people every single day. And three-quarters of these deaths are by men. And also rural areas and remote areas are more affected than the major cities. So these are just steps to put it in perspective of why it is so important to have these conversations and why connection is a protective factor.

Leon Goltsman 2:17

Well, it's urgent that we all need to do something about it. Now, addressing suicide prevention does require more than just hard work and people talking. It's a start. But from your perspective, what makes the work done by Bradley done and the Lake Macquarie and Newcastle suicide prevention so important?

Simone Stanley 2:35

They're not only taking that awareness, but actually turning it into action right at the community level. That is what makes it so powerful. It's community-led, it's grounded in real relationship, and it's focused on practical impact and giving people ways on how to connect, how to reach out. It happens through everyday people, and it's about looking out for each other. And I think that that education and that practical tips that they're providing and having the facilities are allowing all of that to happen from concept to real life.

Leon Goltsman 3:10

And what also what also impresses me about Brad and his incredible team is the community initiatives that go along with that. And from this conversation that we're having, it'll be very inspiring for the listeners and also for all the people who want to know how they can make a difference. Stay tuned. We'll get to hear much more.

Simone Stanley 3:33

Absolutely. And I do like to uh shout out a memory for my friend Scott, who took his life two years ago, and I couldn't see the signs, I didn't see the signs, and therefore this podcast is for me extremely meaningful in order to raise awareness and also do something practical. And shout out everyone. You don't see the signs sometimes, but please stay connected and ask, How are you today? One conversation can prevent someone from taking that step into suicide.

Personal Loss And A Simple Check-In

Leon Goltsman 4:03

And we're all somehow affected by it. Every single one of us. Simone, thank you so much for joining us, for sharing your insights and for advocating for conversations like this to take place. Because this is where awareness meets action. And joining me right now is Bradley Dunn, CEO of the Lake Macquarie and Newcastle Suicide Prevention Network, from initiatives like National Hope Week and the Evolve Mental Health and Wellbeing Hub. This is about real work happening in our communities, ensuring that people have access to support and connection where they need it most. A sincere thank you to Nepean Advanced Rehab and Allied Health Centre and to Niaz Cannoth for supporting today's program and to all our listeners around the world who continue to back what we're building here. Because conversations like this do matter and they shape how we think, they influence how we support one another, and ultimately they can help save lives. So without further ado, let's get into it.

Bradley Dunn And Community Prevention

Bradley Dunn 5:02

So I'm Bradley Dunn, the CEO of the Lake Macquarie Newcastle Suicide Prevention Network. I've been involved in the network for about 16, 17 years now, and always been involved in mental health and community development sort of work in and around the Late Macquarie Newcastle region. Our community members play a really important role in those early conversations and the promotion of positive well-being throughout their families, their neighbours, their work colleagues. It's really important to make sure that we act as a whole community and we are supporting each other. So the education that we provide to those in our community is really important. The understanding of what mental health is all about, what suicide prevention triggers are, how to identify those in our in our population. Those are some really key elements in the work that we do to try and help people to understand that and uh utilize that in their day-to-day life.

Leon Goltsman 6:11

Yeah, and it's also about having discussions around small acts of connection and checking in with others as well.

Bradley Dunn 6:18

Yeah, it's really important that we get our community to check in with everybody that they come into contact with, uh, especially when we do see those signs that something is a little bit different, something has changed. Communication might be slightly different than in in uh one of our work colleagues, for example, that uh they might be a little quieter or uh a bit more reserved. And that's out of character for that individual. And it's it's important for us to understand what we can do in those circumstances to to open up dialogue and and conversation and and really uh provide that level of support uh for for people who are experiencing those.

Leon Goltsman 6:57

Yeah, and we can all make a difference. Uh can you take us back to how the network first began and what actually motivated you and others to dedicate yourselves to this kind of work?

How The Network Began

Bradley Dunn 7:06

The Late Macquarie Newcastle Suicide Prevention Network actually started just as the Late Macquarie Suicide and Support Network back in 2009. It was set up by uh Faye and Brian Hawley uh after they lost their son, uh Darren, to suicide. And they were looking out for a response uh from community. Where do they reach out to? What's available for them? And they found that there was really nothing available, um, or very minimal supports available at that time, and they felt that they could do something in that space to support others around them. And as they started to reach out, they found more people in a similar situation to them. So that's the early stages of the of the network. It was a coming together of of community members uh who identified a gap locally here in the support that's needed for those uh who are bereaved of suicide. And they formalized that into uh the network. Began by tapping into council resources, local community resources, and that um uh collaborative approach really started to to work uh for for those around them.

Leon Goltsman 8:28

And and the more people you get together, the more awareness you get out of it as well.

National Hope Week Explained

Bradley Dunn 8:33

Yeah, it's bringing together the experiences of different sectors as well was uh really important for the early stages of the network to be able to grow with knowledge and with that experience, um, bringing on board the lived experience of those in community, but tapping into the professional experience as well of community members around them that um that came from professional environments, and uh that really did allow the network to to go forward in leaps and bounds and and really start to do some some great work at that real grassroots level in community.

Leon Goltsman 9:12

And and the grassroots levels, it it helps identify awareness campaigns, but ones that can raise attention and um but even the attention, the ones that do raise attention can sometimes struggle to create real engagement. Because I know you've come up with National Hope Week, and that's slightly different to everything else that's out there. How does it help communities move from awareness to meaningful conversations around mental health?

Bradley Dunn 9:38

Yeah, National Hope Week was something that we developed after looking at all of the different suicide prevention networks that exist around uh Australia, and there's 132 different networks uh across Australia, all doing fantastic work, but each of them having some difficulty in engaging community or fundraising or getting that health promotion campaign out in community to make that difference. We wanted to ensure that National Hope Week was a grassroots campaign that sat outside of Mental Health Month and uh National Uh Suicide Uh Awareness Day, uh, which are both in sort of September, October later on in the year. Which those two events are a really good way of bringing together community to make a difference, but they happen at the back end of the year in in what can be a real challenge for people to put time and energy to these sorts of things. So National Hope Week is the last week in March every year, and it's designed to be able to provide that opportunity for people to engage with their suicide prevention networks, to learn about how to support others. There's a lot of education that happens during National Hope Week across Australia. Uh, you can attend a mental health first aid course, a suicide awareness course, those sorts of things. Uh, but it's also an opportunity for people to put their hand up and volunteer to run a fundraiser in their local uh business, their local school, sports, club. And that in itself is spreading awareness in what it does in just uh running those small events. Uh they don't have to be big things. Any way that we can connect with people and talk about the issues, raise that level of awareness is fantastic. And the funds that are raised then go back to those suicide prevention networks to then do their next health promotion campaign. This is the passion uh that that comes into this sort of work and and when we talk about it, it's not a um an exciting topic, um not something that we want to celebrate. Um, in a sense, it kind of is. It is, it is. So if you save a life and you've you've helped people, that's worth celebrating. It is, it absolutely is. And and the ability for us to to really switch the narrative around from um uh loss and and grief uh into hope and forward planning, forward thinking, community action, um, community integration, uh, the types of things that people who are feeling vulnerable can engage with to really pull themselves away from that sort of darker time into what's next for me, what are the opportunities for me? How can I interact with others around me in my community? That's what we really want to see uh coming out of campaigns like National Hope Week.

Leon Goltsman 12:40

So positive messaging is the key, and that's not the only positive message. I mean, one of the campaigns like New He Loves You use simple positive messaging. Why is messaging like New He loves you so powerful when it comes to suicide prevention and mental health awareness? Yeah.

Bradley Dunn 12:58

Um keep it simple, um, simple as best. Um, giving us the opportunity to to provide those quick engagements, those key messagings uh for for people to to look at and go, that's what I relate to. Um, that works for me. And Newy Loves You is that campaign that's all about this place, this town, this uh the people here love you, appreciate you, support you, even when you're in your darkest times, and especially when you are in those times and you're lonely, you're isolated, newy loves you. Well, it's also about visibility and breaking stigma as well. Yeah, it is, yeah. I mean, having a look at uh uh people wearing uh a t-shirt uh around town that that that says New He loves you on the back of it, and um the idea of that and the idea of community all coming together and and helping to break that stigma, it's it's amazing to see.

Removing Barriers To Getting Help

Leon Goltsman 13:53

And well, one of the things that I've noticed as well is the access to support services can sometimes be one of the biggest barriers for people seeking help. Yeah, it can be.

Bradley Dunn 14:04

The um access to services is a significant issue in our community.

Leon Goltsman 14:08

Uh it's something that we It's not just our community, I mean it's it's most communities, I think.

Bradley Dunn 14:13

Yeah, it is. And look in regional communities it's even harder because there's uh less number of services and they're they tend to be spaced further apart. Uh so transport is a is an issue in getting to those services and uh accessing that support that that people need uh in a timely fashion. So we need to look at at different ways of connecting, making sure that those lines of communication are are open for for people in regional and rural communities. So places like the Evolved Mental Health and Wellbeing Hub are really doing that. And uh we've got the opportunity here through this space to be able to attend to people, whether they drop in, give us a call, send us an email, um, however people need to access those sort of supports, that's what we're here to provide.

Leon Goltsman 15:04

And this is accessible and convenient as well.

Bradley Dunn 15:07

Yeah, being right in the heart of Charlestown is a um is a real bonus for us. We're right next to a main uh bus line. It is a walk-in service, so uh there's no appointments needed here. You can just uh sort of drop straight in and and have a chat to one of our team, and um it also gives us the ability to to reach out really easily to those in Newcastle, those in Lake Macquarie. And even further afield, we do uh go up into the Hunter region. We're able to access our partners up in the mid uh mid-coast as well, up in uh uh the Foster Tari area. Um so we're doing some work up there at the moment as well. It's a really accessible space uh here, and and we're finding that is making a uh a big difference for for people.

Leon Goltsman 15:51

It's also very welcoming. So I as soon as I walked in, you know, you've got great staff here, great people, great team.

Bradley Dunn 15:58

Yeah, I'll look I'm super excited about the team that I've built here. It's um uh it's an environment that we're really proud of, and we've made a point of looking at this. Whilst it is a uh clinical space, it doesn't look like that. Um, it looks like a very safe and supportive space. Uh we wanted that front door approach to be really open and welcoming. The team is fantastic, they're exceptionally well trained, um, they're really supportive individuals, and uh that I think puts people at ease, um, especially when, you know, we get a lot of people that come in that don't know what they're here for, um, don't know what they're looking for. And our team can kind of guide them through that and um unpack the the uh issues and the needs that that people have got. And uh doing that in a really calming space uh allows that uh to occur.

Leon Goltsman 16:58

Well, you know you're doing something well when you're expanding the way that you are. And the upcoming launch of Level One will allow more services to operate from this hub. What does the expansion mean for the people in the Hunter region seeking support?

Bradley Dunn 17:13

Yeah, we've been really lucky to be able to acquire a space here in Charlestown that has given us the ability to expand uh when we need to, and we need to right now. Um so um very shortly we'll be expanding to uh our level one and we've already got our partners here, and those partners are individual clinicians, uh independent clinicians that provide a whole range of different types of services through a variety of means as well. They uh are able to do telehealth appointments, which is great for rural communities as well. You don't have to come into the space to be able to access those services. But we have clinical and registered psychologists, counsellors, uh we have a neurodiverse occupational therapist uh specialist here, yeah, which is amazing.

Leon Goltsman 18:11

And this is great because you're providing more services and more accessibility.

Bradley Dunn 18:15

Yeah. Um it gives people the opportunity to access that breadth of services that they need. As we know, mental health affects people in a whole variety of different ways. And we all have individualized needs. And through the hub, we're able to support that range of needs as well, whether it's through um counseling and OT support, or whether it's through youth support or art therapy or sandplay therapy or gambling counseling, alcohol and drug uh counseling. Um, all of those services are available and accessible here. Um and the way that we approach this is uh a little bit different to what you would see in other clinical environments where my support team will continue to sit with uh and support those who are accessing those services as well, well beyond uh that initial appointment. Uh we provide that uh encouraging and supportive ongoing uh follow-up, which is completely free of charge, which means that uh people can come back to us when they do find that something is is I'm really struggling with. And there's that freedom to be able to give us a call or drop in because there is no wait list, there is no eligibility criteria. It is free to access those support workers. Um, and and that is opening up access.

Leon Goltsman 19:44

Well that's really, really reassuring for people who need it most. Well, Brad, many people who do need support may never actively be seeking it out. We've seen that, you know. And and that's one of the key messages we're trying to emphasize. Yeah. That's we all need support in some shape or form, whatever it is.

Bradley Dunn 20:04

Yeah, we do. It it's uh we all from time to time need to access uh different levels of support. Everybody's experiences are unique, and when we need to access support um will differ from from person to person. And so we have different types of access points through the hub and our outreach work as well that allows people to connect with our team around a whole range of different types of of needs.

Taking Support Into Public Spaces

Leon Goltsman 20:35

Sounds like a mental health checkpoint initiative.

Bradley Dunn 20:38

Yes, it certainly does. Yes. Um the the mental health checkpoint initiative is is brand new for us and uh we've been supported really well by uh local businesses to get this one off the ground as well. This allows us to go directly out into our community. You'll find us at at markets, at festivals, local events, anywhere out in community that we can reach people and be there as a soft entry point to normalize that asking for support and that that normalizing the check-in and having the ability to um talk through and discuss and have that narrative conversation about what we might be experiencing at that point in time. So you can go along to the weekend markets, pick up your your your fruit and veg, um, grab a uh a bite to eat, and then come on down to the checkpoint and tap in on our um uh iPad um to complete that that check-in and then have a chat to to one of the team there. It's also just a good opportunity to say hi. Yeah, it is.

Leon Goltsman 21:41

Yeah, and provide feedback as well, of course. Yeah.

Bradley Dunn 21:44

And uh look, we we were recently at the Newcastle show and and that was a really great example of opening up that opportunity for people just to drop in and say hello and have that quick little chat and uh for us to to be saying hi to uh people walking past. In a really positive environment, um, which really does open up conversation as well. So the more we can reach out to community, I I think um uh normalizing this sort of conversation, this um sort of behaviour of of uh opening that dialogue, I think that's really going to change the way that we uh approach mental health, well-being, those little vulnerabilities that we might find in that in our day-to-day that that we can check in with somebody and and find that support.

Leon Goltsman 22:31

So, Brad, what signs should people look for that may indicate someone is struggling?

Bradley Dunn 22:36

Yeah, Leon, this is something we touched on a little bit earlier as well, and it really is about um having a look at what is different uh in the individual uh from their norm, uh, and that can change from person to person. Uh, typically speaking, it it is when we start to see uh people withdrawing from the things that they love. Um uh they're not engaging in the activities that they would typically enjoy doing. They re remove themselves from conversations, um, and uh that withdrawal is probably one of the first warning signs that we need to watch out for. What we can do in regards to that is keep making sure we check in with people and and open up conversation. Those quick little how are you going today? I've noticed that uh things are a little bit different for you at the moment. You you weren't at the gym last week, or you're you're um talking a little bit less at the moment and you're not opening up like you normally do. That sort of language can be really helpful to ease that person into conversation as well. And and that's the approach I think that we really need to take is that ease of conversation. Um I think that's uh from family and friends, even work colleagues, I think that's the the the starting point of that conversation.

Leon Goltsman 23:55

Well, one of the things as well, another challenge of most many people fear saying the wrong thing. For someone who wants to help but doesn't know how to start the conversation, Brad, what advice would you give them?

Bradley Dunn 24:06

Yeah. That's a that's a that is a common thing. Um am I going to say the wrong thing? And the the short response to that is no you're not. If you're having a conversation, um it's the act of being there with that person and showing them that you are in a space with them. Um that's the care and support that that person is looking for. So um jump in, um, have that talk, um, sit with somebody. Uh even the silent moments, they're they're great. It gives uh both you as the um conversation starter and and that person who has come to you um a a chance to to reflect on the the conversation and uh think on um the the the next part of that approach and um those those comfortable silences keep them as comfortable silences.

How To Start The Talk

Leon Goltsman 24:57

Yeah so one of the great things, one of the things I love most about my work is that I get to meet so many incredible people who instill hope in others. And I don't even treat it as work, it's just something I would do anyway. I love it. Uh and just speaking with you one of the things is conversations about suicide prevention can sometimes feel heavy. After years of working in this space, what gives you hope about where the communities are heading?

Bradley Dunn 25:27

I think it's the um the willingness of our community to actually get uh involved in these conversations and to to want to know and help more. Um just recently, actually, we've had conversations with uh your local hairdressers, supermarket managers, um bartenders, people from all walks of life who are saying, what can we do? Um we have people that come in and have conversations with us and we're not quite sure what to do, but what do we do? And so we're able to sort of engage with with those people as well and and uh give them that education, that training, that reassurance that what they're doing by just having that conversation is um is that that start. It's it's that um really important connection with people that they're having. And it's great to see our community coming together as a whole like that. And and this is what Hope Week is all about. It's that that hope, that um encouragement that our community is finally starting to change, that stigma is changing. We're we're opening up dialogue and and seeing that um uh those who are vulnerable, there are opportunities, there are choices that you can make to come and see uh people like us in in the Evolve Hub. There is a whole range of services out in community that people are able to connect to, and and those connections are becoming much more well known now. And that's uh really important uh for our community to have that trust uh and faith uh in our community that um there is support out there.

Leon Goltsman 27:12

And uh the other thing I'm also noticing is the collective responsibility of people, businesses, councils, governments, they're getting involved.

Bradley Dunn 27:23

Yes. Um having so many different types of business, um, community groups, individuals coming together to provide support for people as a collaborative is a really great approach. We access these services in our everyday life. So to have the ability for these services to really get on board and and have the the knowledge and experience and background to be able to provide this level of support is fantastic. Uh and it's it's not just the the the businesses that are getting involved, we've had individuals um who have their own lived experience coming to us and saying, What can I do? These are the experiences that I've had in the past, and I want to be able to help those who are going through it now to not go through the struggles that I went through. And so we're we're connecting with individuals and with families and those those particular groups and it it's it's fantastic to see people really um providing that level of of support. At the back end of last year, we connected with an individual who wanted to do something for his community and for somebody that he lost through through suicide, and he wasn't quite sure what to do. So he came to us and and we helped him to define what that could be, and he said, Well, I can swim. Um, so he decided to do a um uh a marathon swim um to raise awareness and and raise some funding and and really just get out there and and as an individual do something to uh promote um uh positive mental health and um suicide prevention. Um and that's where we're seeing that a lot more. It's great to see uh people like Harry do that work.

Leon Goltsman 29:15

People help whichever way they can, and they put their own individual expression into that.

Bradley Dunn 29:22

They do, and uh one of the things that I did want to mention to you was the work of Kelly Kaye. Uh now Kelly is an uh amazing advocate for suicide prevention and mental health. Uh Kelly unfortunately lost her son Kai to suicide a couple of years ago now, um, and we've been working really closely with Kelly to redefine the way people access support, um, how people can uh reach out, um, the types of resources available to them. And Kelly's fundraising, uh, Kelly's health promotion work that she's done has been an uh inspiration to us here at Evolve. Um it has helped us to expand what we do here at Evolve, and she's continuing to provide those opportunities not just here, but as I mentioned earlier, that work up in the Foster, the Mid Coast region, uh, where Kai spent some time as well doing some work up there as well to uh ensure that our communities in need have got the support that they so desperately need. We're working with Kelly at the moment for uh on the Kai Simon Fundraiser, uh, which is coming up on the 30th of May this year. It's the second one that we've uh helped Kelly to to run. Uh, it'll be at um uh next in Newcastle. And this is an opportunity for anybody who has uh lost somebody to suicide uh to come along to remember that individual who they may have lost. For those who are supporters of family, whether you're um directly connected, whether you're a business and those issues have impacted on your life in some way, this is a real opportunity to pull the whole of community together on one night to um uh really remember uh but also look forward uh to what we can do. And that message of hope is an absolute central point of of the Kai Simon fundraiser on on the 30th of May. So um I do encourage anybody to to to come out um to that event.

Where To Get Help Fast

Leon Goltsman 31:39

Well, 30th of May isn't that long to go. It is just around the corner, but we still have enough time to get people on board. We do, we do. So we'll definitely make sure that information is in the show notes. Brad, I've got to say this has been a great conversation. All great things start with a conversation. It does, yes. And uh if someone is listening to this conversation today who is struggling or knows someone who might be struggling, what would you like them to remember?

Bradley Dunn 32:08

I think um first and foremost is connect with somebody, whether that is uh a family member, a friend, your GP, um, or you can either give us a call here, 409-61100, or if it is a more pressing concern and you feel like uh Lifeline is that uh approach in crisis that you might need. 131114 is the number there to reach through to Lifeline. But just to know that um someone is always there, you can always reach out and people are willing to listen. For anybody looking to connect, uh looking for for resources, for information and support, uh you can go to our website, which is www.connected to care.com.au. On that website, you'll find all the information about the Evolved Mental Health and Wellbeing hub. But there's also a tab there on the website that's got a whole range of different resources that um are useful for for those who may be experiencing a vulnerability, uh, but also somebody who uh may be caring for somebody as well. There's a whole range of information there about the different types of supports available. Um, so it's a really good one-stop shop resource uh for people looking for mental health support and care.

Leon Goltsman 33:21

I'll definitely have that in the show notes as well. Wonderful to catch up with you and well done with all the great work. Looking forward to catching up with you again soon.

Bradley Dunn 33:30

Yeah, thanks Leon. It's been a real pleasure to be able to sit down and and really open this dialogue and and and connect with your listeners as well. And uh yeah, we encourage um uh people to um get out there today and and check in with uh anybody that you know that's um that you feel may be struggling, or just to say hello to the person that you're sitting next to right now.

Final Thanks And Share The Message

Leon Goltsman 33:51

Beautiful. And it's a great way to start every day like that, isn't it? Absolutely is. Thank you very much, and look forward to catching up with you soon. Sounds fantastic. Thanks, Leon. Now that was an important conversation, one that carries real weight and one that I hope stays with you long after this episode. But before we wrap up, I want to express my genuine gratitude firstly to Simone Stanley from Plant Tracker. Thank you for helping open today's episode and setting the tone for the conversation that requires honesty, care, and understanding. Your perspective helped ground this discussion in the reality many people are navigating through every day. And to Bradley Dunn, thank you. The incredible work that you and the team at the Lake Macquarie and Newcastle Suicide Prevention Network are leading is not only important but is essential, from initiatives like National Hope Week to the Evolved Mental Health and Wellbeing Hub and the outreach happening across the community. This is what Real Impact looks like. It's practical, it's consistent, and it's built entirely around one clear principle that no one should ever have to face their challenges alone. What stood out most in this conversation is that change doesn't always need to start with systems, it starts with people, with conversations, with the willingness to check in, to listen, and to show up. And that's something every one of us can be a part of. And I'm really excited because we've got an incredible lineup of guests coming up on Engaging Conversations, leaders, builders, and people creating real impact across communities. Because with every episode, we're not just sharing stories, we're strengthening connection. And if this conversation resonated with you, I strongly encourage you to please share it with someone because it might just very well be the conversation that they didn't know they needed, but one that could potentially save a life. If you have a story worth sharing or know someone who does, I'd really love to hear from you. I'm Leon Goltsman and thank you so much for listening. Until next time, stay connected, look out for one another, and let's keep building stronger communities together.