#42 – Measuring Success by Impact Worth | Shane Muller

What if success starts with generosity, not the other way around? We sit down with entrepreneur and mentor Shane Muller to explore how people-first leadership builds cultures that last, grows B and C players into A players, and turns good ideas into systems with real human impact. From coding a payroll program at ten to building a “cloud” company in 1999, Shane shows how reframing problems around service unlocks innovation that actually matters.

We dig into SafeWatch, his mental health platform built on a village model where close, authentic relationships beat any “magic pill” app, and we talk through the Destiny Foundation’s focus on dignity, carers and children. Shane calls single mums sheroes for good reason: holding families together under pressure is nation-shaping work. Along the way we confront the limits of technology, the cost of social media’s curated certainty, and why buy-in can’t be purchased but can be inspired by purpose. When people feel valued and trusted, impossible goals become daily work.

Shane also shares a powerful idea: impact worth. Just as we all track net worth, we can build a ledger for actions that outlive us, from mentoring emerging talent to protecting vulnerable kids. You may never see the full harvest, but you can design for it now. If you’re a founder, leader or community builder who believes work should serve something bigger, this conversation offers a practical blueprint: give while living, grow your village, and build systems that dignify people first.

If this resonates, follow the show, share it with a friend and leave a review to help more listeners find purpose-driven stories like this. Ready to start your own impact ledger? Tell us the first action you’ll take.

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

Leon Goltsman 0:00

Hello and welcome back to Engaging Conversations. I'm your host, Leon Goltsman, and today's episode is one of those conversations that matters. Not just because of what's been built, but why it's been built. My special guest today is Shane Muller, an entrepreneur, mentor, author, and what he describes as an impact person, using business as the vehicle to make a meaningful difference in the world. Shane began writing software at the age of 10 and has spent more than two decades building companies across technology, mental health, and social impact, including work that predated what we now call cloud computing. But this conversation isn't just about innovation for its own sake, it's about values. Shane holds a deep-grounded belief that when you build people first, you build strong cultures. And when culture is strong, communities are strengthened. From there, sustainable business and financial success tend to follow, not the other way around. In this episode, we explore generosity before success, purpose before profit, and why impact shouldn't be delayed until someday we talk about mentorship, developing people into their best selves, protecting carers and children, and why Shane refers to single mums as Shiro's, warriors holding families and futures together under extraordinary pressure. We also touch on his work through initiatives such as SafeWatch and the Destiny Foundation, both centered on dignity, mental health, and long-term human impact rather than short-term outcomes. A special thank you to Nepean Advanced Rehab and Allied Health Center for supporting conversations like this and to Niaz Cannoth for sponsoring today's program. So whether you're a business owner, a community leader, or simply someone who believes that work should stand for something bigger, settle in. This is a conversation about people, purpose, and building impact that lasts. So without further ado, let's get into it.

Shane Muller 2:07

So, as an introduction, my name is Shane Mueller. I'm a business person. I run quite a few businesses, but uh, you know, it was a few years ago someone very eloquently described myself. They actually mentioned I'm not a business person. They actually clearly highlighted that at the core he called me an impact person. Business just was the vehicle. That was a very interesting uh repositioning. That is an interesting one. How do you see yourself? I truly love seeing myself as no label, no fancy title. I genuinely love being the human being, the the guide. I am challenged with titles. Uh it's not something I elevate uh much at all. Often when I meet up with uh staff, for example, and we are out socially, I introduce them as uh colleagues, not my staff. I just really prefer to keep a level playing field when it comes to the humaneness of people.

Leon Goltsman 3:03

You're very down to earth, and we kind of see over and over and over again that people think, I'm gonna give when I can. When I become wealthy, when I become successful, that's when I'm gonna give. And then we see people give before they become successful, and you know what? It's almost like you become successful because you give. How do you feel about that?

Shane Muller 3:26

Well, the topic of giving is one of my favorite topics. Uh, as a matter of fact, I'm quite certain I could write a book on the topic of giving. Uh, although a side note, I have written a chapter on it, I could write a book on it. It truly is a very thrilling topic to me. Uh, I'm quite blessed that I truly love to give, that I give because I actually want to give. Um, I do agree, giving comes first. If I was to look back uh in my business life, I remember having at least a couple of CFOs who were challenged that we were giving dollars, and they approached me uh very tactfully to highlight look, why don't you not give, use the money this way, do this, this, this, and then we can use the dollars, and then in X number of uh months or years, you can give something so massive, it'll be huge. I just don't subscribe to that. I don't subscribe to one day I will have the right amount of money to give. I don't subscribe to one day I will have the time or energy to serve and do something good. I truly subscribe. I have a healthy, I would say, ball uh awareness that I only have a few grains of sand in my hourglass. You know, and I don't want to walk around as if I can see through that hourglass. As far as I'm concerned, it's not glass. I can't see how many grains I have. So uh A, I would give now as opposed to later. B, uh I remember reading a book, uh, a guy called Chuck Finney uh many years ago. As a matter of fact, he was the guy who inspired the likes of Gates and Zuckerberg to around the giving pledge, and massive wealthy people have got behind that. It's interesting that no one knows the guy behind the initiative. Uh, but it's a great guy, and he, you know, he coined this phrase giving while living. And there's a lot of merit to that, you know, as opposed to giving through an estate that a lawyer dishes out. And again, I'm not trying to be rude, but there is a huge thrill to serve. I'll use that another word. It's the same as giving. You can give financially, you can give off yourself, uh, you can give off your care or emotion. Um, I have seen, through my experience, the giving part is actually what fills your own tank.

Childhood, Collaboration And Grit

Leon Goltsman 5:46

You know, a lot of people do put things off. Not just giving, but their dreams in life, they put things off when they could be doing them today. Your childhood shaped not just your mindset, but the ethical backbone of your career. How did those early experiences in Sri Lanka, because you were coding since the age of 10, weren't you? And and I'll I'll get to ask you more about that later, but um just understanding how did those experiences as a 10-year-old help shape the person and the leader that you are today?

Shane Muller 6:19

Well, I'll say the early years of shaping around writing this payroll program at age 10. I mean, that was a tremendous shaping for what I call uh everything to do with my entrepreneurial journey. Without realizing what I learned doing that, I learned the power of collaboration. And I collaborated with my dad because I had no idea what the difference was between gross and net. He had to explain that to me. But it's great, he had no idea about the computer side, by the way, nor did I. So in hindsight, I you know, I witnessed and I we literally could see the power of many people coming together. You don't have to have everything, you don't need to know everything. But if you can bring different instruments, uh a guitar, uh a tambourine, a fiddle, etc., uh, you can make some amazing pieces of music that in on on your own, it'll be impossible. And as a matter of fact, the guitarist may never ever be able to work out how to do the fiddle, maybe, or a drum. But with different people's experience, you can bring people together. And I realize I could do that in uh business, uh, or more specifically, I could use that as a means of seeing innovation come to pass. The business is the economic side of it, but actually innovating because not one person knows every intricate detail of the SpaceX uh operation. Yes, not even Elon Musk. Absolutely. So uh he's relying on others. Absolutely, and that's the power of collaboration, that's the power of uh that human dynamic, bringing people who are able to work together. Uh so that that's one aspect I learned. The other aspect I learned was uh going after a vision. I had a picture of what this payroll program would look like. Never seen a payroll program in my life, uh, but I I I pursued a vision in my mind, and then as the months transpired, it it you know it did come to pass. And then the uh third thing I learned as a young kid, because you know, my sisters, my mom, everyone was uh in bed. You know, my dad and I were up midnight hours, and I was a young 10-year-old. Um, I also learned you keep going. Yeah, you keep going, you you you you put in the work, you commit it to something.

Inventing Cloud From A Service Problem

Leon Goltsman 8:37

You keep going and you create what you need to create. And you doing that has um has provided you with the ability to, in a way, see the future before the world caught up with it. Uh and and in that I mean in 1999 you built a cloud computing company when cloud wasn't even in the vocabulary. What did you see that others didn't?

Mentoring And Growing A-Players

Shane Muller 8:59

Um so when I set up OBT, that was an interesting uh concept, and I'll I'll I'll I'll give you an amazing story. It's it you know, I I think I heard Richard Branson say this as well. Sometimes the most amazing ideas uh don't magically drop on you, you just see a problem and you reframe the problem. So I was doing some consulting, uh technical consulting, and I remember this one uh afternoon uh I was in Double Bay doing a job for a customer. Uh I must say uh the customer trusted me because they gave me the key, go do the work, no one's there, and and charge me for the time you're there. It was quite an amazing level of trust. This weekend, it was a bit beyond my capability only. So I took a buddy of mine, we went there, spent hours, and we probably walked out around 3 or 4 p.m. on a Sunday. And I remember him saying, when we were outside this place, he said, So what are you doing tomorrow? I said, Oh, I've got to go to Lidcombe, another client. And then I uttered this phrase. I said, you know, instead of me and us coming here to double bay to fix this for the client, and now tomorrow I've got to go, the customer has to wait till I'm available. Now I've got to go all the way to Lidcombe to fix the other customer's thing. Wouldn't it be better if all these customers' infrastructure is where we are and we just fix it all the time and they have timely service? Well, you had a problem. Well, I didn't identify the opportunity. I was trying to make uh customer service more efficient and faster, not be reliant on travel time or human capacity. A. B, I was also making it more efficient for the likes of the technical people. So what that description I just articulated, in a sense, is what a cloud model is. Yeah, you know, tech people don't go to the infrastructure, and you know, it it in essence the customers can be anywhere on the globe and they remotely connect to it. And that really was the start of the idea. And I remember we both went to a cafe and we uh uh drew out uh the business plan. And in our context, the business plan actually was a network, technical network drive, and we planned it and go, this is what will work. You know, customers don't need to wait for limited resources travel around the world and need wait for service.

Leon Goltsman 11:07

The theme is with what you do, is you're always putting people at the forefront of everything you do. You've never just built companies, you've built people for people, I suppose. You build companies, you build solutions for people. What do you look for when mentoring a great place? Because you've mentored quite a few in your time and you've got fantastic books, and we'll talk about that a bit later on as well. Uh, one I'm holding my hand, your unique edge. I only just got gifted that book today, and I'm really looking forward to reading it. But straight away, you've had a lot of great successes, and you've been allowing other people to do that as well. How do you bring out the best from people?

Shane Muller 11:48

So, to answer your question on the A-grade players, we, you know, we had an amazing uh season where we were known for having a lot of A-grade players. I remember we used to go out to recruitment firms and say we want uh to hire some A-grade players, and and they would ask us, like who? Give us a model, and we'd point to our existing team, you know, like this person and this person, this person. Uh now, fast forwarding, I will say this: I have never successfully been able to find slash hire an A-grade player. So then what we did was we sort of sat down and go, why is it so hard? What happened? How did these guys get here? And we realised I have never in my entire time hired an A-grade player. All these A-grade players we had were B and C grade players when they joined me. Uh, I just got sort of confused thinking, oh yeah, I found you like that. But in essence, no, they were B and they were C, and I'm not putting them down. And uh if they were sitting here with us, uh I'd say it in front of them, uh, you know, in a more you know, in a humble manner. Uh but what we realized, the culture we created within this specific business, uh OBT, um we created an environment for growth and development. We created an environment for average or below average to excel. Uh, it included many uh aspects. It included uh taking a chance or taking a risk, which I did. It included uh giving opportunity, sometimes earlier than someone would. It's like being asked to drive a car when you're 15 and not whatever the age is. So, you know, we we would take chances like that, and I would have taken many chances with the team. But I would say in all of that, we ended up producing some amazing A-grade players that became uh targets for global organizations to poach and handsomely, handsomely, handsomely remunerate them. And I would say in my time we did a review, more than 10% of every one of the staff I've had uh had has ended up becoming an A-grade player, which is a bit unusual. I pay them so that I can coach them. I feel like uh, you know, I'm not a dad who's has a child graduating or getting married off and moving, you know, moving to their next chapter. But it feels like, wow, you know, I've done an amazing piece of work with this staff or these staff members for the few months or years they were with me, and now they're really taking this amazing step in their life journey.

Leon Goltsman 14:19

And that shows that success isn't just how far you've accomplished your goals, but how many people you've helped accomplish their goals along the way. Absolutely, absolutely.

Shane Muller 14:30

It is, you know, it's very thrilling. I've had many uh of the team members, once they have gone to other places to work, that they're kept in touch, they wanted to still stay engaged because they're either well, they valued the culture, they valued the the training, the mentoring, um, you know, that that whole and and the relationship, the relationship aspect, I would say is probably the most uh tactful one because you know you've got to wear the employer hat and you've got to wear, you know, you've got a lot of hats to uh juggle. Not everyone's used to you changing hats on them.

Leon Goltsman 14:59

I've heard a few business owners who have a fear of training their people. You know, they worried that one day those people are gonna be good and they're gonna leave. But then here's the other thing it could be worse. Imagine not training them and they stay.

Purpose Over Profit And Real Buy-In

Shane Muller 15:15

Yeah. I I look I I subscribe to that, and I have had many people who've been trained and left. But you know, once you get over the hurt that you're losing, you know, there is a level of joy that I've experienced countless amounts of times to see the fruit of what they gained uh in their short time that I had. It is an it's like a spring of joy.

Leon Goltsman 15:38

Well, that's also giving your initiatives and your motivation for starting businesses that goes well beyond just making money. So profit has never really been the primary measure of success to you. Why is it so important that your companies exist for a higher purpose to protect people and make the world safer?

Shane Muller 15:57

So purpose, uh a higher purpose is certainly a very fundamental aspect of the businesses that I have. And I would say all the businesses I'm involved in, it could be, you know, a technology business, I would say it really has a higher purpose. It could be a uh business like SafeWatch, which is a mental health business. That's a very easy one to identify. Yep, we can see where the purpose is. All of my businesses, uh, I will say this, all of the businesses I have, at a young age, in my teenage years, I was blessed that I journeyed down this path to answer the question of why, and get an answer of why on earth me, Shane, wants to work, wants to work hard for however long, and make dollars. I was able to answer that at a young age, and that I really believe that's a blessing to have that why, that purpose. Now, that purpose uh has outworked itself in the form of the Destiny Foundation, a charitable foundation. So all of these are the why, uh, all these businesses are tied to the why. Now, when it comes to the greater impact, I have found something else. You know, you can I've I've had uh done business Excel models where the profitability and growth are staggering and it could be quite exciting. I've had certain models like that, and I've overlaid them with other business models that may be moderate, moderate level uh of growth, but it has a greater impact that outlasts our lives. Those business models provide fuel in the engine that cannot be bought. I'll give you another example. I have in with SafeWatch, we have uh we at one time we had up to 40 people in the SafeWatch team, and less than three or four were getting paid, the overwhelming majority volunteering. Now, I can tell you through experience, and all these people had no spare time. I have learned firsthand that you cannot buy buy-in from start. You cannot. Cannot buy buy-in. It's not uh you may think you're getting buy-in by paying someone very handsomely, and I've had many people are paid handsomely or probably a bit over handsomely. But uh, I have also worked with people, e.g., some volunteers, their level of buy-in and their sold-out level, you can't buy that.

Tech Limits, Family Bonds And Media

Leon Goltsman 18:25

I've always believed that when people do something, the best way to get the best out of people is for them to want to be there. And the best way that people are gonna want to do something is if they feel valued, appreciated, and if they've got a purpose.

Shane Muller 18:40

Absolutely. And that purpose, I would say, is the biggest thing that I've seen. Um that's a bit lacking in our world. You know, and I it's unfortunate that most uh people organizations overcompensate with the dollar to uh for for not having that purpose. But purpose, you know, having purpose is a difference between, you know, unleaded fuel and jet fuel, in my view. It really you know, you're gonna have some tough terrain. Uh, and and uh when people are aligned to a cause or a purpose, honestly, the impossible is done.

Leon Goltsman 19:14

One of the impossible that we see every day are people raising families. And with today's day and age, we see technology dominating people's decisions, you know, spell checkers and autocorrects are telling people what to write. And pretty much ridden it for them. All they have to do is just hit send. And then you've got Chat GPT and so many other different technology that people are no longer thinking for themselves. And so it's harder to raise people to be the next future leaders. And some of the hardest jobs is raising children. You've mentioned when we had coffee the other day, you see single mums not just as victims, but as warriors. And and for whatever reason, you know, they it could be domestic violence. We see a lot of um people losing partners. And some people do see themselves as victims, but you don't. You see single parents as warriors, especially single mums as more soldiers than soldiers. And these were your words. What did you mean by that? And what has moved you to build protection specifically for them?

Shane Muller 20:22

Well, when it comes to single mums, so I uh you know that's one of the core, uh one of the four impact areas of the Destiny Foundation. I actually really feel they're in a place of such significant influence. I really don't look at the reasons why things transpired the way they transpired, and who knows? And it's not for me to walk in wearing the glasses of a judge, that's not for me to do. But there's a significant role for uh single mums. But before I explain that, I just want to go back to the family aspect. You are right. We're looking, we're, you know, as you extrapolate how society is going, you know, we're in a technological world these days, and technology influences so much. Uh it has so much influence on the younger generation. But the the very saddening point for me is I've seen, you know, it's okay that technology influences, but what I've seen is at the expense of families influencing dinner tables, for instance.

Leon Goltsman 21:20

Some people don't even have dinner at a table anymore. They use their technology to order the food and have it in their bedroom, for instance. If they've got a bedroom. Uh, and we're seeing this shift where families used to have dinner at home, where most people learn and share what happened throughout the day. And we're seeing less of that.

SafeWatch’s Village Model For Care

Shane Muller 21:41

Absolutely. And I actually subscribe to that family unit being the most critical aspect, and certainly for the early years of any uh human being. That's unspoken shaping, that's where the values are sown, uh, and that's where behavior is modeled, which is far more. Powerful than uh cheap talk. Uh that's where it's modeled. And by the way, it is also okay that there are families that had bad or wrong modeling because in reality there is no family out there that hasn't got something a bit off. Uh, if you're a human being, you're not perfect. You know, there'll be some behavior.

Leon Goltsman 22:19

But social media will kind of curate. And people may realize this, they may, they may not, that a lot of the lives that are being shared are curated. It doesn't represent the reality of what really is.

Shane Muller 22:33

Exactly. The social media certainly doesn't help any human being, child or or an adult, because it it paints you this picture of what uh you should be going after, but in reality, it uh uh life doesn't work like that. Life is messy. It really is. There's ups and there's downs. There's agreements and disagreements. Now, if you never sit down and talk amongst a family and never have a disagreement, that young person's going to be challenged when they go out into the world.

Leon Goltsman 23:01

But even worse, even worse than that is they're gonna feel alone. They're gonna feel alone where they had that family unit or friendships who they knew they could just pick up the phone or go and see in person has been replaced by a keyboard. Or now, not even that. Chat GPT, it's almost like let my chat GPT talk to your Chat GPT and let them decide what we're gonna do. Exactly.

Shane Muller 23:24

I talked to someone just recently and they were downplaying, you know, you can still be okay if you didn't have the family dialogue as a young person, it's okay if you're surrounded by technology. And I challenged them because they're a person on a board. I said, no, you you lack the skills to engage with other human beings on a board. You know, if you don't have those skills, it's just not gonna work.

Leon Goltsman 23:43

Yeah. And then the other thing is when you're talking about social media, especially a platform like ChatGPT that tells you you're right, whether you're right or wrong, it just agrees with you, that's dangerous. Because I've always said what's more dangerous than people being wrong is having the confidence that they're right. And isn't that how war starts? And isn't that how the world becomes, using your words, messy?

Destiny Foundation And Scale Of Impact

Shane Muller 24:09

Absolutely. I don't actually think there's a problem with wrong. As a matter of fact, I think if you study most people who do anything, uh they've done more wrong than right, you know, that's part of the. But that's how we learn. Exactly. That's that's where we learn. I think the concept of wrong and failure, uh, unfortunately, uh our society paints the a wrong picture about that. It is not uh to be seen as a negative. So society paints uh the wrong view of the concept of failure or wrong. Having said that, what's worse than that is what I call deception, which is similar to what you just mentioned. You think you're right, but you're just deceived. And that by definition of deception, you can't see it.

Leon Goltsman 24:49

No, and you think there's only one answer, and that's the one that you come up with, nothing else. And that's that's when we become narrow-minded, even worse, closed-minded. Yeah, narrow at least, you still have a little window of seeing something that may enter your thoughts. But when you're closed-minded, that's it. Yeah, nothing comes in.

Shane Muller 25:09

Yeah, absolutely. Um, and then going back to the uh technology aspect. So, one of the things we've uh founded SafeWatch on, which is this mental health platform, we've been told by a countless amount of sources, our model and approach, what we're doing is we're actually not using technology as a magic pill. Mind you, we are using technology, but we don't subscribe to technology being the thing that's going to stop you from jumping off a building. We know it won't. However, what we believe will really help a person are close, authentic relationships. So we've found it safe watch on what we call the village model, doing life with people who've got your back. Because uh, when times are tough, you need a best friend or a best mate or a sibling or someone to come along, grab you by the collar, because after all, they've got a strong enough relationship with you, they can do that.

Leon Goltsman 25:57

They can, and there's that element of trust. Exactly.

Shane Muller 26:00

And and you, you know, if you built that sort of relationship, it is okay for a best friend to call a spade a spade. Yeah. Uh, because after all, they're not.

Leon Goltsman 26:09

I personally think everyone should be calling that, but that can be that can get a lot of people in trouble. I think people um uh not having that confidence anymore where they feel they can.

Shane Muller 26:17

Agree. You know, there's too much of uh fear for fear for um offending.

Leon Goltsman 26:22

Yeah, yeah. Well, we get that uh quite a lot, actually. But I've yeah, I I could talk about this, but I don't want to hijack this conversation because I think what you what you're touching on at this particular point is far more important than me getting frustrated and telling you what I think about offending people's feelings. But the work that you do, what's very inspiring for me, and I'm sure for many other people, is that you are driven by initiatives that aims to change the trajectory of millions of lives. Tell us more about that.

Protecting Children And Supporting Carers

Shane Muller 26:54

Well, about the Destiny Foundation, as I mentioned, I'm I'm humbled and blessed that I stumble upon or found this cause or this why as a teenager. Um, very early, I'm told, uh, but it's it really is great. I found that the reason I am gonna work as hard as I'm gonna work, be it in one business or a hundred businesses, one investment or a hundred, uh, and I have no problem sitting down and talking to the marketplace or even customers and telling them why we're gonna make some very handsome profits. Because I know where the overwhelming amount of profits are gonna go, and it's tied to the Destiny Foundation. So, two aspects. I think, you know, when we, when us and humanity are blessed with skills, talent, opportunities, uh, being born at a particular time, a location, etc., you know, I don't subscribe to, well, that's great, Leon, that's good for you. I don't subscribe to that. I believe, well, you know, if this is the time and place and and certain talents are put in our hand, it is for me to do something for the greater masses, not for me, for me. So I see all of these opportunities as, okay, it's a responsibility. You know, certain people with means, financial means, I see them as having a responsibility to do good. I see people who have intellectual skills as having a responsibility to use that for good and have an impact beyond their life and their uh nucleus of a family life. But I would say have an impact on countless and faceless people, people they'll never know. That taps into a motivation where you cannot possibly do it for the recognition, or you cannot do it for people to come and say thank you. Would you give off your life if no one ever came around and said thank you? Most people would may or may not struggle for it. It's almost like saying, Would you give a donation from a company without a tax return? A lot of people may not admit, but they probably prefer the tax return. So giving where there's no recognition back. So, you know, I believe, you know, the greater you're ones blessed with talents, skills, uh, acumen, etc., that they can do something to make a difference within our world. And they don't have to do it alone. I use the example of before. You can put together this amazing orchestra piece and create a piece of music that will reverberate uh to another planet, uh, you know, collectively in time. So uh that actually is very, very inspiring. And then the the final thing is, you know, doing something that is so great uh ties into so much uh purpose because when there are bad days and you know, there's more bad days than good days.

Leon Goltsman 29:38

Oh, look, how do you know that you've got a good day if you didn't have a bad one?

Shane Muller 29:42

Agree, absolutely, yes, and and this this purpose is is critical for that. And then my final point I want to clarify because I was asked this uh by someone when they challenged me and said, that's a bit arrogant. Uh, how are you gonna impact a hundred million people? And I will say this I know what I will do. I feel I will see less than a single digit percentage in my lifetime. But that doesn't stop me from creating something that will uh continue way beyond uh multiple generations. The start is the most important, and the starting right, I think, is the most important.

Leon Goltsman 30:16

A thousand mile journey begins with a single step. Now, your systems that you've created and you're continuing to create, and it means a great deal to you, and that is to protect children. Now, we see a lot of things in society that that we rely on. You know, one of those uh being systems that are meant to protect people, children, for example, but occasionally they do get it wrong. And uh we see it, we hear about it, we know about it. And you've spoken about children taken away from parents and families, let down by the system. What drives your passion to help them and what solutions are you building for that?

Shane Muller 30:57

So um Destiny, one of the impact areas Destiny focuses on uh is the the the the aspect of young children. Firstly, I'll say this when it comes to children, there is a significant amount of innocence that children have that most people will uh agree that you couldn't easily put that on an adult. Uh but children really uh are born not by creating their own circumstance, situation, manipulating anything, they really have a level of innocence that is so pure. They don't choose the time, nor the place, nor the status of the family, nor any circumstance. It could be in the middle of a war, it could be you know on a fancy yacht. Um but I've seen not just in Australia but many places around the world, the value of children um they don't get the value that they deserve in many places around the world. You know, I'd like every adult to remember that one day they were that child too. Now, sure, it's quite possible that they had such a horrific childhood that they are uh the way they are now in a negative sense, but I would say every young person deserves the the best opportunity that they can get, be it a two-year-old or a twelve-year-old. It doesn't really matter, uh, but but a a young person. When it comes to certain things, you know, the they may get dislodged in our world. There's a lot more dislodging happening uh in Australia. You know, kids are taken away from parents, you know, the the law gets involved, things that were originally created for probably well well-meaningly created uh aspects. And then in other places, kids are dislodged more because there's a dollar value, and if you traffic a child, you know, you've you know, there's a whole ecosystem around that, that uh many of us in Australia are quite sheltered from, really sheltered from.

Impact Worth And How To Start

Leon Goltsman 33:00

We've had a guest on our show, Astrid Hocking from Hearts and Hands, uh, Orange Ribbon, who um does amazing things in the in the community, and and you've met her as well, I think, a couple of times. Astrid is a champion, but it's also people like you who bring out the champions and they're not looking for a pat on the back. They're just doing because of that exact reason that you mentioned earlier. They don't want any rewards for themselves, they don't want recognition, they just do it because it's the right thing to do. Having these conversations, just even sitting and talking to you, feeling your energy, your your genuine concern and purpose for making this world a better place and helping young people find their way. More needs to be done. Clearly, not enough is being done by everybody, regardless of what their intentions are. I think sometimes people are so caught up because life isn't easy, not just for kids, for children, for adults. It's not easy. We're under a lot of pressure. But we need to put things into perspective and get back to basics and focus on what's the most important thing, and that is our future.

Shane Muller 34:08

Absolutely. Oh, I will uh so to add on to that point, the you know, focusing on what's important, I would say humanity, people's lives, I would say, is the most important. And for some, it's at the at the expense of their own life. You know, typical parent would often think like that. Uh or anyone who's generous and wants to serve is often like that. You know, at the at the cost to yourself, you you you make a difference to someone else, probably never getting a uh a thank you ever again. Um, but I actually would say this there are a lot of children uh within this nation, uh, at least registered on the out-of-home care, that's you know, close to 50,000, but there's millions of children around the entire planet. We shouldn't just you know limit our our heads and hearts to our backyard only. There's this is a significant global challenge when it comes to children. Children need the right level of care that the on the but on the flip side, you know, we also need to understand uh the the adults, either the parents or the carers, no one's gonna step up to the plate perfect. And if people, if partners, if agencies are looking for perfect, uh we're gonna have them taken care of by robots probably, which will lead to another challenge and not have the social skills that they need. Having said that, though, the carers who who pay this price to care, not for their own children. Caring for your own children is super hard work. It takes something else to care selflessly for others. And you know, I believe that you know carers need a greater voice within this nation. They are what we call the unspoken, the invisible army. As a matter of fact, SafeWatch, the mental health platform, is primarily designed for carers. Because our view is if this nation loses its carers, there's no hope for anyone struggling for mental health. And that's both paid carers and relational carers. Someone who gives a rip, someone who just cares. People like that are the most valuable. Hopefully, they're motivated by something pure. I get it, they'll drop the ball. People drop the ball all the time. I drop the ball all the time. You can't do anything, you can't even leave your bedroom without dropping the ball. Something is gonna mess up. Sometimes it's gonna happen. It's gonna happen, but you know what? These kids see, if they can see someone, keep getting back up. Because remember, the unspoken life modeling is the best teacher to people, to kids.

Leon Goltsman 36:36

People listening, and I know there are a lot of people out there who genuinely want to help. But the thing is, is that a lot of people just don't know where to start. Now, for everyday Australians, business owners, parents, community leaders, what is the one thing you want them to take away from your journey?

How To Connect And Closing Reflections

Shane Muller 36:55

So, what one thing could would I inspire business people and people in the community? I will say this, uh, I'll I'll focus on the business uh person of that in uh person first. As a teenager, I learned, you know, watching trappings of success. I could as a young kid, I worked out, okay, to be successful, you need some dollars. And, you know, as a young person, I sort of figured that out, and then I worked out, okay, how do you measure that? And then the concept of net worth came about. And by the way, I'm this is a preview. I have written, got my chapter outlined for the next book I'm working on. It's actually called impact worth. Because if people can have, just as they have their net worth and know exactly where they stand, as a matter of fact, you can't go and get a mortgage without calculating that for your financials, have a concept of a ledger of what I call impact worth. There are things that every person does and says throughout their life that has an impact. And that can equate to what I call an impact worth because I can tell you when we are all having our deathbed experiences, impact worth and the impact we made is actually more consciously at the center of our mind and more importantly, our heart than our net worth. And it doesn't take significant dollars to be an impactor, to change a life, to change a community. It simply takes a decision, and what I was told uh taught this a long time ago, how do you how do you catch this vision? How do you start? And uh the answer I got was well, if you can't start, hang around people who've got that vision. It will rub off. And so I would say, check out what we're doing at the Destiny Foundation. I'd love to connect with anyone because it will rub off making a difference in our world.

Leon Goltsman 38:41

So, Shane, if people wanted to get in contact with you and you invited people to reach out, what is the best way for them to do that?

Shane Muller 38:50

Uh, best way, reach out to me, social media, my LinkedIn, my Instagram, my my website, shanemuller.com. Just reach out there, you'll find everything I do. That's the best way to connect with me, and I love to have a conversation.

Leon Goltsman 39:02

And that's Shane Muller, Shane S-H A-N-E M-U-L-L-E-R. I'll have all that information in the show notes. Shane, thank you so much for your time. Mate, really appreciate it. I am really looking forward to catching up with you again next week because the good thing is, as you said, when people come together, especially like-minded people, our paths don't just cross once, they continue to create new journeys and new pathways together. And that is the key. Help each other, support each other, grow together, and just be the best versions of ourselves that we can be. Fantastic, truly superb, Leon. Thank you. Thank you so much for your time, Shane. Really appreciate it. Now that was a great conversation that I really enjoyed, and I hope you did too. But before we wrap up, I want to take a moment to express my genuine gratitude. One of the greatest privileges of hosting engaging conversations is the opportunity to sit with people like Shane and so many others who generously give up their time, insight, and lived experience so openly. These conversations remind me that leadership isn't just about titles or platforms, it's about service, integrity, and the courage to build something that genuinely helps others. I'm also deeply grateful for the incredible guests we've had and those coming up. People like Brenda Miley from Let's Go Surfing, whose work changed lives by opening doors, building confidence, and creating belonging in a space where not everyone once felt welcome. And innovators like Daria Valenza from Carbonics, whose work in advanced manufacturing and aviation innovation is world-class and critically important to Australia's future. I'm equally grateful to the growing number of people reaching out from around the world. People building businesses, raising families, leading teams, supporting others, and holding communities together, who are engaging in thoughtful conversations about what Australia does well and where we can and must do better. Some of those discussions touch on sensitive issues, but they're necessary, especially if we're serious about progress, policy, and people first systems. With every new episode, we're sharing more than just stories. We're celebrating connections, connections with people who are making a real difference in their own communities. Often quietly, often without recognition, but always with impact. If you're listening and feel you have a conversation worth sharing, or know someone who does, I'd genuinely love to hear from you. You can reach me on 1300-423-027 or by email at leon.goldsman at ecohq.com.au. I'm Leon Goltsman. Thank you for listening. Until next time, stay connected, stay curious, and let's keep building stronger communities together.