Engaging Conversations | Inspiring Dialogue, Empowering Communities
Welcome to Engaging Conversations, the podcast that connects you with the pulse of our local communities.
Hosted by Leon Goltsman, Co-Founder of Ecolibrium Headquarters (EcoHQ), each episode invites you on an inspiring journey into the stories that shape and uplift our neighbourhoods.
From visionary leaders and industry experts to everyday heroes making a difference, Engaging Conversations offers an exclusive look into our society’s diverse and dynamic fabric. This podcast is your gateway to broadening your perspective, building meaningful connections, and being inspired.
Please note that the views and opinions expressed by guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of the host or EcoHQ. The discussions in this podcast are for informational and entertainment purposes only and should not be considered professional, financial, medical, or legal advice. Listeners are encouraged to seek independent professional advice before making any decisions based on the content of this podcast.
Tune in, join the conversation, and discover the people, places, and purpose driving positive change.
Engaging Conversations | Inspiring Dialogue, Empowering Communities
#30 - The Fighter's Journey: David Fox on Living Beyond Parkinson's Diagnosis
When you meet David Fox, you might first notice the calm strength of a lifelong martial artist. What you might not see right away is the courage it takes to live each day with Parkinson’s disease — a condition he’s faced for nearly 15 years. Once a fierce competitor on the karate mat, David’s battles today are far more profound. This isn’t about trophies anymore — it’s about navigating life with dignity, confronting stigma, and offering hope to others walking a similar path.
David's story begins not with a doctor's diagnosis, but with a chance observation from a chiropractor friend during Bikram yoga teacher training in Las Vegas. "He saw me tremoring," David recalls, "and said 'I think they're Parkinsonian tremors.'" That night, David researched the condition and recognised every symptom in himself – the micrographia, slurred speech, and tremors that had been present for five years without proper identification. This delayed diagnosis represents a systemic failure that David believes needs urgent attention.
The conversation reveals the profound stigma faced by those with Parkinson's. From being denied entry to venues because security assumes he's drunk, to having his bag searched by suspicious store security who profiled him based on his symptoms – these everyday indignities compound the physical challenges of the disease. Yet through it all, David maintains not just dignity but extraordinary capability. He continues teaching karate students in his backyard, gradually rebuilding strength after a life-threatening brain hemorrhage. "The main problem for people with Parkinson's," he observes, "is they don't do enough to keep themselves active."
Perhaps most striking is David's call for greater awareness about Parkinson's diversity. He notes that only 35% of patients experience tremors, while the condition takes approximately five years to diagnose. His message to policymakers is direct: "I want them to throw as much money on Parkinson's as they did on COVID." His book, "The Way of the Pigeon," offers philosophical lessons drawn from observing birds navigate challenges – flying away from danger without resentment and surviving in diverse environments without resorting to aggressive tools.
Listen to this remarkable conversation and discover how a martial artist's discipline can transform the experience of living with a progressive condition. If you've been touched by Parkinson's or seek inspiration from those who refuse to surrender to circumstance, this episode offers rare insight into resilience that transcends physical limitation.
Thank you for listening!
Hello and welcome back to another episode of Engaging Conversations. I'm your host, Leon Goltsman, and each week I sit down with people who are shaping stronger communities through courage, connection and the kind of everyday resilience that doesn't always make headlines but absolutely deserve to. And today's episode is proudly brought to Niaz Cannoth and the team at Invest Intelligence visionary supporters of progress, purpose and possibility. And today I'm joined by someone who I've known for decades, not just as a martial artist, but as a competitor, a teammate, a mentor and, above all, a friend.
Leon Goltsman:David Fox is many things A former karate champion who represented Australia at the Maccabea Games, a dedicated teacher, a creative soul and someone who has faced Parkinson's disease with more strength and dignity than most people realise is even possible. Diagnosed nearly 15 years ago, david's story is one of grit, humour, persistence and a painful honesty from life threatening medical emergencies to public encounters with stigma, to rebuilding strength, step by step, in his own backyard, david opens up about what it really means to live with Parkinson's in Australia today. But this isn't a story of survival. It's a call for awareness, for earlier diagnosis, better support systems and greater recognition from our leaders and organisations like Parkinson's New South Wales, because behind every diagnosis is a real human story and unless you've lived it, you've probably never heard it like this. This episode is for anyone navigating Parkinson's or walking alongside someone who is. It's also for policy makers, advocates and decision makers, who need to hear what's really happening at ground level. So, without further ado, let's get into it.
David Fox:Hi, I'm David Fox. Well, I'd had symptoms for about five years already before I was diagnosed, but because I couldn't see the tremors at that stage, the first thing I noticed was that my arm wasn't swinging when I was walking. Then the tremors started and then I went to become a Bikram yoga teacher doing hot yoga in the Hilton in Las Vegas, and I had a friend who was a chiropractor and he saw me tremoring. He goes I think they're Parkinsonian tremors and I didn't know anything about it at all. So that night I went and looked it up and every single symptom of Parkinson's I had the micrographia, the slurred speech, the tremors, and as I read them and ticked them all off, at first I felt like jumping off a bridge because it seemed so overwhelming and so engrossing. But that was 2010, so I have a different perspective on it now.
Leon Goltsman:So are you telling me that you've never gone to the doctors before and no one's diagnosed?
David Fox:it took somebody random to actually point that out yeah, well, my friend was a chiropractor and he was always behind me in class in in uh, las vegas, there the bickering teacher training, and he noticed of course I was shaking a lot more, doing two hot Bikram yoga classes every day. And he noticed it and he said, dave, I think it's Parkinson's. And I was really angry at him at first because I thought, if he's wrong, look at the trauma he's put through. But he was right.
Leon Goltsman:Yeah, well, it's clear that a condition like Parkinson's isn't just about physical health, though it often comes with assumptions, pity or people not knowing how to respond. Dave, can you share your experience with the stigma around Parkinson's and how it affected the way people treat you or perceive you?
David Fox:Well, a good example is when I used to go to the airport and I tried to do it without getting a separate wheelchair because I didn't want to look like I was crippled. But every time I stood in a line they'd bring out the sniffer dogs because I was tremoring. So now I get the wheelchair in the airport. Other things too, like often you look like you're drunk because of the way you're walking, and when I went to Bud Yew Boy Soccer Club for the first time the guy on the door wouldn't let me in. He's going, you're clearly drunk. I said I'm not drunk, I've got Parkinson's disease, and he wouldn't believe me. Then the manager came out and I explained I had Parkinson's disease and he said oh, let him in. I said I'll take a breathalyzer or anything, I don't mind.
Leon Goltsman:I haven't been drinking at all yet. Yeah, and I remember you were telling me a story that time when the security grabbed you, that time when they took your bag off you and emptied out all the contents after the yoga lessons. Do you want to tell us a little bit about that as well?
David Fox:Well, I had the backpack on my shoulders and I just stuck my head in the door and and looked at the prices of vodka, because I wanted a bottle of vodka and they were no good. So I walked out and then the guy comes running out of the store going you've stolen something. I said I didn't touch anything, you can look on the video cameras. I just stuck my head in looking for a price. He goes take your bag off. It had all my wet yoga gear in it and stuff like my Bikram costume, which was, anyway. They went through absolutely everything all my pills. What are these pills? I said look, I haven't taken anything from this shop. He said well, then you've got nothing to worry about. But they still kept me there in Bondi Junction where I could have been seen by who knows what.
Leon Goltsman:Do you think that's because perhaps the Parkinson's symptoms may have alluded them to? Something is wrong?
David Fox:I don't know what the police were thinking.
Leon Goltsman:So you're someone who never stops. I mean, I've known you for how long now, Dave? It's been a long time.
David Fox:Since you were 12. How old are you?
Leon Goltsman:Okay, so let's just say since I was 12. So we've known each other for a very long time, almost 40 years. That's a long time it is, and I haven't changed a bit.
David Fox:They used to write on the back of his hand when he used to play up in class so that they knew that he was a troublemaker.
Leon Goltsman:Yeah well, some things still never change, do they?
David Fox:No, I suppose not.
Leon Goltsman:Well, when you're on a good thing, stick to it. I say so, dave, from someone who never stops, from martial arts and dancing to calligraphy and craftsmanship. You've always found ways to stay active and engaged and you are an inspiration. You were my karate instructor, but also a great friend and somebody that we've competed not only against each other but with each other. We've represented New South Wales. We've represented even on a national level.
David Fox:Correct New.
Leon Goltsman:South Wales, we've represented, even on a national level Correct, and we still have the videos to prove it. And some of those competitions we actually did pretty well, didn't we?
David Fox:Yeah, most of my videos have rotted away. They're no good. You can't use them anymore. Yeah well, just as well. We've still kept them digital versions of it. We got some digital ones out of them before they went kaput.
Leon Goltsman:Well, I'm glad we've done that, but I've always admired you for that, dave, and I just wanted to ask you what drives you to keep learning and moving, and how important is that mindset for others living with a progressive condition?
David Fox:Well, I had another complication on top of that. I had a subarachnoid hemorrhage, which is when an embolism in your brain expands. It makes a little bubble and then it pops. And I was just sitting at home and all of a sudden I had a terrific pain in the back of my head and then I couldn't get out of the bed. So I called the ambulance, I wet the bed and then they took me to Wyong Hospital up here and they put me in the waiting room. The ambulance drivers and I just couldn't take the pain.
David Fox:It's one of those painful things. It's supposed to be more painful than childbirth. It's supposed to be more painful than childbirth. And I laid down on the floor in the waiting room of Wyong Hospital and they quickly came out and grabbed me and said you can't lie down here. I said you want to bet? And then I just collapsed again onto the floor and then they realised I had a brain haemorrhage and they choppered me to Royal North Shore Hospital where the surgeons had to do some urgent surgery, and it was pretty nightmarish. Really, going to the surgical neurology room is like being abducted by aliens. It's all screens and monitors and people lying there with tubes in and out of them.
Leon Goltsman:I can just imagine how frightening that would have been, and a lot of people didn't know what was happening to you at the time. What were you thinking?
David Fox:Well, it was in the middle of COVID. Everyone was wearing masks still, so it was 2022.
Leon Goltsman:Yeah, so it's a miracle that you're here, Dave.
David Fox:Yeah, I came very close. I had some pretty good hallucinations about the end of the world.
Leon Goltsman:Sometimes things happen in life when we least expect them. Certainly you weren't expecting 20, 30 years ago to be with Parkinson's and then be in a situation during COVID Well, let alone COVID itself who would have thought something like that's going to come around and affect us the way that it has? And then, on top of that, you've had to deal with this situation.
David Fox:Yeah, well, a large percentage of people who have what I have just drop dead on the spot and then, out of the ones that make it to hospital, a lot die in the hospital. So I've come out of it pretty unscathed. My left leg is a bit weak, but it's only if I want to do something important with it that it matters.
Leon Goltsman:Well, on the way here, just before we started our conversation, you've had a few private students asking me to come and join in and train. I mean, look, I would have loved to, and and and I will in. If I promise you I'll come back and we'll do some cut and do some training, but just seeing you training and teaching the people, your students, that's pretty remarkable, dave, I've got to say. That's pretty inspiring.
David Fox:Yeah well, they were at another place up here in the Central Coast and they just weren't being taught properly. So one of my carers had another woman who was one of her carers and she'd actually taken her to the karate classes give her a lift there and watch the karate class and she said, mate, you'd do much better if you just went to Dave and I didn't have any students at that stage, and so we started training in my backyard and now there are four people interested in it.
Leon Goltsman:Yeah, I'm just thinking how incredible it is. We hear people whinging and complaining and kind of say, well, I can't do this or I'm not well, I'm not feeling well, I've got Parkinson's. They make excuses. I can't remember the last time you've ever made an excuse for anything, let alone this. So, dave, for other people who are allowing their condition to cripple them, what would you tell them?
David Fox:Yeah, well, I've always kept training. It started when I was in the hospital. I couldn't even walk around the ward of the hospital and when I got out I couldn't walk from around the corner where my friend lives, where I was staying, to my house here. But gradually started walking more, got the dog, started walking the dog every day. And that's how it starts. It starts with a stroller where you have to walk with a stroller, then you can get by with a stick. Once you've built yourself uproller, then you can get by with a stick. Once you've built yourself up, then you can walk normally.
David Fox:And then sometimes I even do a little bit of running, although it's not really running. You could walk faster than what I run, but uh, just to stretch the muscles out a little bit, uh, and that's. And then you start doing some light weights and they get heavier and you get stronger and you can build your strength back up. The main problem for people with Parkinson's, in my view, is they don't do enough to keep themselves active. On Friday mornings I go to Parkinson's PD Warriors. Pd is obviously Parkinson's disease and these are very similar to karate kata and you do them and that helps strengthen you up as well.
Leon Goltsman:I've watched you do karate. You know in your prime and more recently, and I've got to say some of the techniques you do today. I mean you've always been exceptional level and you've put in the effort. You're not natural. I mean both of us. We're not natural karate people are we.
David Fox:There are people who are far more natural than I was.
Leon Goltsman:yes, Well, I think the key, you know, to us and we've done pretty good over the years in terms of winning competitions and collecting perpetual trophies over the years, I suppose but I think what got us there is that we were always persistent. We trained harder than most, didn't we?
David Fox:Yeah, people would come and say let's do some sparring and then watch you and me warm up and go. I don't think I want to. They'd say, let's do a cutter, and then they'd pike out.
Leon Goltsman:When you speak to many elite athletes even Michael Phelps, I mean he's an asthmatic and some of those conditions, the things that actually stop people from training is the reason why they train in the first place. I mean, for me it's been arthritis and I've got to say that, rather than letting it cripple me, I've always used it to fuel me, to make me train harder, to make me train better, to make me train with more mindfulness. So when I watch you do karate training even now, I mean I'd love to get a video of you and actually post it one of these days. But when people see it, it's really hard to believe that you've actually got this condition, because a lot of your techniques is probably better and stronger than most people without it.
David Fox:Well, my students. They became my students. They watched me punch Bob the body opponent bag and they went. Then you can see the difference. So the power is the last thing to go.
Leon Goltsman:I've got to say that if somebody mistaken you for a handicap person walking down the street, I think they'd be in for a bit of a shock if you decided that you were going to defend yourself.
David Fox:I think so.
Leon Goltsman:Yeah. So the lesson is if you see somebody walking very slowly with a walking stick, don't assume anything.
David Fox:Correct.
Leon Goltsman:I do like your confidence, dave, but still not everybody is like us in that sense, and certainly not everybody's like you, because a lot of people do rely on our system, on a system that that's meant to take care of them. They've got to deal with complex mazes of health systems, funding bodies and bureaucratic hurdles. Now, from your perspective, where is the system letting people down with Parkinson's, and what do you think needs to change?
David Fox:Well, I wouldn't categorise it as the system letting them down, but we would like a cure, like I've had it almost 20 years and they said maybe in 20 years we'll have a cure, and still no closer. So if they treated it like the way they treated COVID, they'd have it solved straight away. But no one will throw enough money at it.
Leon Goltsman:Well, I only found out recently while speaking to Parkinson's New South Wales that Parkinson's is the biggest bed hogger. In fact, it hogs the beds in hospitals. It takes approximately five years to diagnose it. So if they diagnosed it earlier, for instance, you'd be able to have more available hospital beds, and yet it's not even on the government's radar. I've only realized recently that about 35% of people who have Parkinson's they don't have any tremors. Only 35% of people with Parkinson's actually have tremors. So people assume that if you don't tremor, you don't have Parkinson's. That perhaps is probably one of the reasons why so many people are not being diagnosed. What do you think about that?
David Fox:Yeah, they could work out a method for early diagnosis. That would help a fair bit. But what can you do Until they have a cure for it? Up until recently, they didn't know exactly what was causing it. It's not like you can just cut open someone's brain and have a look.
Leon Goltsman:Yeah, but the thing is they actually do have technology and they actually do have ways of detecting Parkinson's earlier. The right medication could give people at least some sort of dignity and give their lives back.
David Fox:Some respite from the symptoms?
Leon Goltsman:yes, and yet, if they're not diagnosing it, then I suppose we have a problem, don't we?
David Fox:And yet if they're not diagnosing it, then I suppose we have a problem, don't we? Well, until you can prevent the progression, there's not much they can do. Anyway, there's fairly good meds to keep you. You know, I remember when I was a child like four or five years old in the block of units where we used to live, there was a man with Parkinson's and he was really shaky. He would walk out and he was one big tremor, which is probably what most people would be like without any medication, like they didn't have it in those days, and that was a nightmare. My mother had an auntie who was also bedridden from Parkinson's and used to just sit there in tremor all day. So we're lucky we've got the meds now, but we really need something that will stop the progression and more attention to it, I suppose.
Leon Goltsman:So if the government don't even have it on their radar, that's a problem.
David Fox:Yeah well, michael J Fox does a good job of getting it out there. He's been a great spokesman.
Leon Goltsman:We talked about your recent major health scare yeah, also the near-death experience that could have changed everything. What happened and how did that moment reshape you, how you kind of now see your journey with Parkinson's and life in general. Now see your journey with Parkinson's and life in general.
David Fox:Well, I'm not as physically adept at anything now, since I had the brain hemorrhage, but combined with Parkinson's, well, that makes it twice as hard, doesn't it?
Leon Goltsman:It certainly hasn't stopped you from living your life. I mean you still drive, you still go out your life. I mean you still drive, you still go out, you catch up with friends, your family, you train, you've got a dog, you've got friends, you've got relationships. You're living a pretty fulfilling life. You write. You've written a book recently. Haven't you Tell us a bit about your book?
David Fox:The book is called the Way of the Pigeon. I first thought of the concept a little after I was diagnosed with Parkinson's. But I was in a car park in Bondi Junction and I was waiting for someone to pull out and this guy came in in a WRX and stood there waiting and when I took the parking spot he started yelling and screaming and all that stuff. So I started recording him and he got out of the car and he was threatening and I called the police and then, after it was all settled, I went and sat in my usual park and I was just watching the pigeons and I realised if I'd have just given him the parking spot, if I'd have just gotten out of the way, it would have been a lot safer because he was ready to get violent. So I started watching pigeons and I realised I made up these 10 rules about the pigeons.
Leon Goltsman:A lot of people don't realize this, but pigeons are actually a very athletic animal, well bird, they can fly from. You know different countries, literally, and they're fit and they're survivors, but also they're very nurturing, they're loving, they know their home, they know their place. So the pigeon is not just the bird that eats crumbs that people leave behind. Just in one sentence, dave, what can you tell me makes the pigeon such an inspirational bird?
David Fox:Well, it was more okay. The pigeon is in every country, in every climate, in great numbers without having any jaws or teeth or jagged claws. They basically fly away when there's any danger and they don't have any recriminations about it. And the pigeon has survived in all different climates and all different landscapes. And in the cities and in the country they just move out the way. When the dog runs into the park, they just fly away.
Leon Goltsman:Well, the pigeon is a very mystical bird and I'm sure we can talk a lot about pigeons, but the fact that you've actually written a book, the Way of the Pigeon and I've read it, and it is a very inspiring book and it's not a very big read you could probably read it in one hour. So, dave, as always, I do enjoy catching up with you and I'm sure a lot of people will. Once they meet you, they'll realize how inspiring you are as a person, but also as a friend. And if I could, just some observation as well, is that a lot of people, from carers to politicians, I still don't think they fully get what Parkinson's is or what it really is like to live with it from day to day. If you had the year of, say, parkinson's, new South Wales, the health minister or even the prime minister, what is the one message you want them to hear loud and clear?
David Fox:I want them to throw as much money on Parkinson's as they did on COVID.
Leon Goltsman:To throw as much money on Parkinson's as they did on COVID. Wouldn't that be incredible?
David Fox:Yes.
Leon Goltsman:Yeah Well, I'm sure a lot of people will agree with you on that, dave, thank you very much. Always a pleasure to catch up, always a pleasure to see you. And look, can I just ask you one more question before we go? If people wanted to get in contact with you just to reach out, to learn more about you and possibly even about some karate training or other things, what is the best way for them to reach you?
David Fox:The best way if someone wants to contact me is probably via email at the moment, davidneilfox N-E-I-L at gmailcom.
Leon Goltsman:That's davidneilfox at gmailcom. Correct, perfect, dave. Thank you very much. Lovely to have you on the show.
David Fox:Thanks, leon, I appreciate it.
Leon Goltsman:And there you have it, folks. What an extraordinary and deeply moving conversation with David Fox, an individual whose strength, humor and humility remind us what it truly means to live with purpose. From his ears as a karate champion to his honest reflections. Humour and humility remind us what it truly means to live with purpose, From his ears as a karate champion to his honest reflections from navigating Parkinson's to our health system. David's story is one of persistence, adaptability and the quiet power of never giving up. He's lived through stigma, medical misdiagnosis and even a life-threatening brain hemorrhage, and yet he continues to teach, inspire and show up for others. His message today is one that we all need to hear that behind every condition, every label, there's a human being, and they deserve dignity, attention and action. If you'd like to connect with David, you can reach him directly at DavidNeilFox at gmailcom. That's Neil with an E-I.
Leon Goltsman:Looking ahead, we're excited to keep bringing you stories from people who are changing lives, not just in big, flashy ways, but in practical, personal and powerful ones From rehabilitation specialists to happiness facilitators, to those helping others re-enter the workforce, to innovators behind groundbreaking global technologies. Engaging conversations is where real people, real solutions and real value come together. There'll be insight, inspiration and more than a few surprises along the way, and I want to hear from you what resonated with you today, what would you like us to explore in future episodes? Email me anytime at leongoltzman at ecohqcomau, because this podcast is built on the voices we share together, and if you found value in this episode, please follow Engaging Conversations, leave a review and share it with someone who needs to hear it. Let's grow a community that listens, learns and leads with heart. I'm Leon Goltsman. Until next time, stay engaged, stay connected and let's keep building the kind of community that we all want to be a part of together.
