Engaging Conversations | Inspiring Dialogue, Empowering Communities
Welcome to Engaging Conversations, the podcast that connects you with the pulse of our local communities.
Hosted by Leon Goltsman, Co-Founder of Ecolibrium Headquarters (EcoHQ), each episode invites you on an inspiring journey into the stories that shape and uplift our neighbourhoods.
From visionary leaders and industry experts to everyday heroes making a difference, Engaging Conversations offers an exclusive look into our society’s diverse and dynamic fabric. This podcast is your gateway to broadening your perspective, building meaningful connections, and being inspired.
Please note that the views and opinions expressed by guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of the host or EcoHQ. The discussions in this podcast are for informational and entertainment purposes only and should not be considered professional, financial, medical, or legal advice. Listeners are encouraged to seek independent professional advice before making any decisions based on the content of this podcast.
Tune in, join the conversation, and discover the people, places, and purpose driving positive change.
Engaging Conversations | Inspiring Dialogue, Empowering Communities
#26 - Leading with Purpose: How to Attract, Engage, and Retain Talent in Business with Trudy MacDonald
Transforming workplace culture isn't about quick fixes but fundamentally understanding what drives human performance. Trudy MacDonald, award-winning global keynote speaker and founder of Talent Code HR, brings over two decades of organisational psychology expertise to this illuminating conversation on building high-performance teams, particularly in regional areas.
Trudy unveils the psychology behind what motivates young professionals in today's challenging economic landscape. She dismantles the false dichotomy between supportive leadership and accountability, revealing how the most engaging workplaces seamlessly blend both. "If we have high levels of empathy and support without accountability, we risk creating entitlement," she explains, offering instead a framework that balances psychological safety with clear expectations.
For leaders struggling with talent retention, Trudy provides refreshingly practical guidance. Beyond competitive compensation (which "takes money off the table"), she emphasises creating workplaces where people feel genuinely valued while having opportunities to grow. Her innovative concept of "WOMBAT hunting"—identifying Waste of Money, Bandwidth, and Time—offers a transformative approach to productivity that both individuals and organisations can immediately implement.
Drawing fascinating parallels between her competitive rowing career and business leadership, Trudy demonstrates how high-performance habits create the "recipe for success" in any domain. Her insights on upward mentoring, building resilience through change, and connecting personal values to the company mission provide a comprehensive blueprint for creating workplaces where everyone thrives.
Whether leading a business, managing a diverse team, or seeking to elevate your professional impact, this conversation delivers actionable strategies that blend cutting-edge psychology with real-world experience. Connect with Trudy at talentcodeHR.com.au to continue your leadership journey.
Thank you for listening!
Hello and welcome back to another episode of Engaging Conversations. I'm your host, Leon Goltsman, and each week I sit down with the people who are helping shape stronger communities through leadership, innovation and the everyday actions that make a lasting difference. This episode is proudly brought to you by Niaz Cannoth and the team at Invest Intelligence visionary supporters of progress, purpose and possibility. Today we have the honor of welcoming a truly exceptional guest, trudy MacDonald. Trudy is an award-winning global keynote speaker and the founder of Talent Code HR, a consultancy renowned for transforming businesses across Australia and beyond.
Leon Goltsman:With over two decades of experience in organisational psychology, trudy has worked with Fortune 500 ASX, 100 firms and some of the most recognisable brands, driving performance through strategic, people-first initiatives. Her work spans Australia, new Zealand, the United States and parts of Asia. She has been named Speaker of the Year by the Executive Connection, the world's largest CEO network, a testament to her global impact and deep expertise. In this episode, trudy shares some powerful insights on building high-performance cultures, attracting and retaining top talent, and leading with clarity, empathy and purpose. We also dive into the critical role of young employees, especially in Australia's fastest growing regional areas, where the future of business depends on how we engage, empower and inspire the next generation. Whether you're a senior professional or an emerging leader, trudy's wisdom will challenge your thinking and elevate your impact. We're incredibly fortunate Trudy made time to join us, and I promise this is a conversation you're going to love, so, without further ado, let's get into it.
Trudy MacDonald:My name's Trudy MacDonald and I'm the Managing Director of Talent Code HR, and what I'm really passionate about is working with leaders and organisations all over the country, but particularly in the Lake Macquarie area, to help them build high performance organisations, and I do that by getting the people side of the business right. So, as many of you would appreciate, there is no silver bullet when it comes to mobilising your people and making sure that they're productive and engaged. It comes to mobilising your people and making sure that they're productive and engaged many different elements to that and it's the complexity of that situation that really gives me the drive and the passion to be helping leaders all over the country, and mindset is a very important part of it all.
Leon Goltsman:Now you've consistently highlighted that mindset is the foundation of performance. How can cultivating the right mindset amongst young professionals, especially in regional areas, drive productivity and long-term business success?
Trudy MacDonald:It's really interesting, I think, when we look at the younger generations and trying to tap into their mindset and what it is that will make them productive and make them show up to work, wanting to do their best work, I think we've got to really not only understand where they're coming from, but we also need to understand the basic psychology of what makes people tick, and I've got a background as an organisational psychologist, so one of the things I'm really focused on is getting to the root cause of what it is that drives performance.
Trudy MacDonald:So, with younger people today, I think one of the things we need what it is that drives performance. So, with younger people today, I think one of the things we need to recognise is that they want to feel valued and they want to feel appreciated. So if we want them to give us, as an employer, a mindset of discretionary effort and I'm going to do my best work when I show up every day one of the things that they will expect in return is feeling valued, feeling appreciated and feeling a sense of connection. And if I can give you some practical examples from the Lake Macquarie area, which is an important region in New South Wales, there's a young person that I know well who works in a cafe. She's at university at the moment and she will come home from her seven to eight hour shift in the cafe and I'll ask her. I'll ask her you know, how was your day at work? And she'll say it was fantastic. And I get curious when I hear that kind of response and I'll ask what is it that makes this workplace fantastic for you? And she'll say things such is it that makes this workplace fantastic for you? And she'll say things such as it's the vibe, or I just feel like that everybody accepts me, or that you know, I really love it when customers will tell me that I've done a really great job and they'll engage in some conversation with me. So I think one of the things to recognise is if, as an employer, we can make an effort to create a great work environment, make sure we get to know our young people as people and make sure they feel that real sense of belonging that's going to really shift their mindset. But there's another piece beyond that, because that's just the foundation that we need to lay.
Trudy MacDonald:The next piece is around accountability, and I think for a lot of leaders and managers, accountability can feel like it has to be a difficult conversation but in fact, if we do accountability well, it's not punishment, it's actually one of the most motivating things we can do for people and, I think, for young people. If we can create a healthy environment that incorporates accountability, it will actually shift their mindset. And this is what it looks like very practically. As a leader, we need to make sure our young people know what's expected of them. So when they're working for us, we need to be really clear in saying this is what's expected and this is what it means to be performing in your job. So that's the first conversation really clear in saying this is what's expected and this is what it means to be performing in your job. So that's the first conversation.
Trudy MacDonald:The second part of the conversation is one of instilling a sense of self-belief. So we need to go to our young people who, remember, may not have the confidence or the skills to do what we're asking them to do, and actually say I believe in you, you can do this and I'm going to support you and I'll invest in developing you and your training. But you've got this and I've got a belief that you're going to be great. That's the second thing. Psychologically, that's so important. And then there's a really important third step, and that third step is I'm watching you. Now, I'm watching you doesn't need to be a negative thing.
Trudy MacDonald:However, many of the listeners will have heard the expression we manage what we measure. So being really clear on what it is that I expect of you. I believe that you can do this and when you do it right, I'm going to catch you doing good things and I'm going to tell you that you've done it right and that's going to help. And when you don't do it right, I'm going to bring that to your attention as well and we're going to tell you that you've done it right, and that's going to help. And when you don't do it right, I'm going to bring that to your attention as well, and we're going to unpack why didn't it quite work right and how can I support you and I think, leon, with those two elements. If you can get those right within the culture of regional businesses, young people will walk over hot coals for you and that's one of the hardest thing is retaining good quality talent.
Trudy MacDonald:Yeah.
Leon Goltsman:And that's always been a challenge. What are the most effective strategies you've seen for engaging and retaining younger employees in these environments?
Trudy MacDonald:Leon, I don't think we can shy away from the fact that the economy is tough and the cost of living is high, and young people are really feeling the burden of that. So when I talk about what it means to engage people and what it means to retain people, there's a hierarchy of things that we need to get right, and right at the foundation is the concept that money does matter. Now, sometimes money is a bit of a dirty word and, as an employer, we might think you know what? If money is somebody's key driver, they're not quite the right person for us. Well, that's fair enough. However, if the money is not right, if the money is not fair, if the money is not right for that person to live a reasonable life, then money will be the biggest motivator. So here's my recommendation when it comes to remunerational money Pay your people fairly and, if you can afford it, pay them just above average, and you can get data that's freely available that will let you know what people should be paid in different industries, whether that be a cafe or a hairdresser or a real estate agent. And if you can let people know that you are going to be paying them not only fairly, but a little bit more than average, they will perceive that they're paid fairly. And then we take money off the table, and that's actually our objective with money. We don't want it to be the key driver, we want to get it off the table. So let's assume that we've got that in place. That's a really important foundation for retaining people. But then the thing that's actually going to retain people and make a difference is another hierarchy of things, and one of them I've already mentioned, which is this sense of connection and belonging and, in the young person's language, the vibe. The vibe feels good when I work here. You can also call that organisational culture. Beyond that, we start to look at things such as what's referred to as psychological safety, and what that refers to is do I feel safe in this workplace, speaking up, having a voice, being asked my opinion? Do I feel safe making mistakes and know that I'm not going to get yelled at or I'm not going to be made to feel like I'm a failure, but rather it's a learning opportunity. So if we can create that kind of environment, what you'll find is not only will engagement go through the roof because people feel this sense of connection and purpose, but you'll also find that people will stay with you.
Trudy MacDonald:Now, when we talk about young people, I think it's worth recognising it's not a one-size-fits-all. So you may have young people who have left school without any tertiary qualifications and maybe they're working in retail. You may have young people who are going through an apprenticeship, or maybe they're working in retail. You may have young people who are going through an apprenticeship, or maybe they're in a trade. You may have young people who are in university and they're working as a side gig, or even they've finished their degree and they're now working in a professional environment. So there's not a one size fits all here.
Trudy MacDonald:However, the concepts that I'm talking about here, I think, relate to most. There is another element, though, and I want to just reintroduce money back into the equation. For some roles, having some form of incentive scheme to drive retention and the behaviours and the outcomes that you're looking for can also be really, really effective, and an example of that would be a retail environment or a real estate environment. With a lot of the young people that I talk to, I'll hear from them that if there is an incentive and it's not discretionary and this is a really important point there needs to be clear criteria. What do I need to do to earn that incentive that can be a really important driver of engagement and retention as well.
Leon Goltsman:Incentive that can be a really important driver of engagement and retention as well, and, from what I'm hearing, if people follow those steps and components, in the long term it'll probably save them money, won't it?
Trudy MacDonald:Oh, absolutely. And when we start to talk about incentive schemes and talking about paying people fairly, I think most leaders and managers and business owners would recognise how costly it is when you do lose somebody. Having to rehire, retrain it absolutely does save you money. And the other thing with incentive schemes, if they can be strategically aligned to what the business outcomes are that you're looking for so maybe it's better customer service, maybe it's increasing the value of each transaction then what you'll find is you've got a win-win situation. I think one of the most important things to think about when you're trying to boost productivity is to recognise that accountability is a really important part of the equation. And, as mentioned earlier, it's important that you can be really clear with people on what's expected of them and then making sure that you're measuring that. Now the measurement of that needs to be done in a way that's psychologically safe, so you don't want people to feel punished if they're not doing their job correctly, but rather it needs to be a coaching conversation. It needs to be a high support conversation.
Trudy MacDonald:One of the really interesting things, I think, for leaders to get their head around, particularly in regional areas, is that over the last few years, we've become very empathetic towards our employees, and what I mean by that is employees come first, their needs come first. So we've been very empathetic to understanding that our young people want flexibility. Our young people may want to work from home. Our young people have a desire to travel and subsequently maybe not work normal work hours. So there's a lot of give and there's a lot of support, and in order to attract people, particularly in regions, a lot of employers have had to offer a lot of benefits. So this is what it's going to feel like when you come.
Trudy MacDonald:If we have high levels of empathy and support in our organisation and that's not balanced with accountability, we risk creating a sense of entitlement. And this is where I've seen a lot of leaders are really struggling with young people that you give them a little bit and then that becomes an entitlement, and then they want a little bit more, and then they want a little bit more and suddenly it becomes very lopsided and I'm seeing leaders who don't necessarily feel that their business is performing, but I'm having to give more and more to my employees. So the thing to get right here, and the balance we need to get right, is how do I balance that empathy and that great culture and work environment with accountability. And if I can share another example with you accountability and if I can share another example with you, working with an organisation in the Lake Macquarie area a blue-collar workforce and we were supporting the organisation to improve their accountability practices and one of the most simple things we did is, for each person's job, we made it very clear what great performance looks like and they knew that every quarter they would have a meeting with their manager to discuss how they were progressing against that. And I remember one of the gentlemen came up to me after I finished launching this particular initiative and he said Trudy, I just wanted to share with you that I am so delighted that this has been put into place. And I said well, that's great, tell me what's going through your mind. And he said well, previously I would have catch-ups with my manager and the conversation was often along the lines of you just need to do better because Johnny's working harder than you or Susie is able to produce more output than you.
Trudy MacDonald:You need to be more like them. It was constantly comparing to another person and he said you know what? It was so demotivating because there was always somebody better than me. He said what I really like about this program is it's just about me. It doesn't matter how I'm comparing to anyone else. I know what success looks like in this job. I know if I can doesn't matter how I'm comparing to anyone else. I know what success looks like in this job. I know if I can deliver on that, I'm going to be rewarded. And now I've got a benchmark that I can work towards.
Leon Goltsman:And one of the benchmark is to inspire people to become leaders. Trudy, you often speak about the importance of building future ready leaders. What core leadership capabilities should regional businesses be nurturing in their younger professionals right now?
Trudy MacDonald:Our young people are our future leaders, and I think we need to look at them through that lens, and every day that they're working for us is an opportunity to build their capabilities. If I look at what it takes to be leading now, in 2025, and start to look at what it's going to mean to lead, moving forward, there's a number of attributes that we need to be building in our younger people. One is a sense of autonomy and being empowered, and if you look at all the different ways that you can develop people there's training programs, there's courses that you can send them off to do some further study All of the research will tell us the single best way to build somebody's development is to increase their autonomy or to increase their level of responsibility, and I think more and more we need younger people to feel empowered, to be able to think for themselves, to make decisions, not coming to their managers saying what do I do now? Or, even worse, waiting to be told what to do. So that would be one attribute, and in order to do that, increasing autonomy and responsibility and holding people accountable for that and catching them doing good things is a really important framework.
Trudy MacDonald:I think the second thing is recognising that technology and AI will continue to increase at a rapid pace and our younger people we've got to remind ourselves have grown up with this. It's second nature to them. So, creating space and forums within your businesses for them to lead initiatives or to be part of project teams that are possibly cross-generational, where they can contribute their ideas around technology and how it can help your business. I think that's an incredible opportunity, because what it does is it starts to build skills around real-life problem solving, is it starts to build skills around real-life problem solving. It starts to tap into this feeling of being valued and creating a real sense of purpose, and all of these things are going to set people up to be future ready as leaders.
Leon Goltsman:And, trudy, you have touched on AI, but also, right now, where we are. We're facing the most unpredictable times since World War II. Even large organisations that used to have short, medium, long-term plans, they're not even looking at it anymore, like that. Everything is now a short-term plan and we know that change and uncertainty are part of today's business landscape. I mean, that's how things are right now and younger professionals they're navigating it in real time. How can leaders support a resilient, adaptive mindset in younger staff to help them thrive through this change?
Trudy MacDonald:Leon, I think with younger people, there is a huge amount of change, as we know, in the workplace and as leaders. If we want to be supporting them, to be more resilient, there's a number of things that we can do, and I think this comes back to understanding the psychology of change. If, as human beings, we feel that change is being imposed on us, generally we lose trust with the individual who's imposing that change, because they're making us feel uncertain, insecure, less competent, and we resist change for that reason. However, the good news is that if we feel as though we're somewhat in control of the change that's happening, we have a very different view of change. Change is actually exciting. Change is about progress. It's about innovation.
Trudy MacDonald:So one of the simplest things we can do with our young people in our teams is bring them on the change journey with us. And there's a few simplest things we can do with our young people in our teams is bring them on the change journey with us. And there's a few things that we can do there. Number one make sure that you're really clear around why. What's the vision? Where are we going with this change? The second thing is helping them understand how it's going to impact them and creating the space to have those conversations. But I think, more importantly and more excitingly, help them understand that you don't have all the answers, and how they can be part of that change process. And I think, looking at AI as an example, there's an incredible amount of change and, as you mentioned, leon, many organisations are not engaging in long-term planning anymore. It's quite short term If we can engage our younger people to help us determine how the change is going to be executed, and that may be just creating forums for them to share ideas or share perspectives.
Trudy MacDonald:Often you'll find that resilience builds through that process. I like to think about resilience as being a muscle, so if we don't use it, it atrophies. But if we do use it so if we've got constant exposure to change what happens is that resilience muscle gets strong and suddenly we find that we can navigate things quickly. So that would be one thing Make sure that your younger people are part of the change. Don't do change to them. Make them part of it. The second thing is recognising the importance of support networks, so creating forums to talk through the impact of change, to talk through feelings, to talk through how we're going, and that may be through one-on-one check-ins or it may be with their peer group. That's another really important element to help people build resilience.
Leon Goltsman:And it's all really about trust and having respect for the organisation. I mean, you mentioned previously that strong culture starts with aligned values and with that, how can organisations help younger employees connect their personal values with the company's mission in not just any way in a meaningful way?
Trudy MacDonald:So a company's values really describe the way we do things around here and, subsequently, what's important to us. And I think it's so important that you can get younger people to authentically connect with the values of your organisation, because if you can create that connection, what it does is it creates a sense of purpose, it creates a sense of belonging and with that foundation, you'll get a whole lot of discretionary effort from your younger people. It's interesting a lot of organisations have what I call shadow values, so they may have their stated values, and most organisations have pretty similar ones around integrity and teamwork and accountability and client focus and trust. I'm sure you've all heard those before. However, the way that people behave in organisations may not always reflect those values, and that's what's referred to as shadow values is what's really going on. So one of the really important things, particularly for younger people when they come into an organisation, is, first of all, to share the values of the organisation, and you may refer to them as values or you may just say this is the way we do things around here, this is what we value, this is what we respect.
Trudy MacDonald:What can be really important in terms of creating that connection for them personally is to engage in a conversation with them around their personal goals. Now, when I talk about personal goals, there's two elements to that. There's their work-related aspiration and goals when do you see yourself going in the future? And then there's personal goals, and I think, for young people particularly, most of them have some pretty strong personal goals and a lot of it may revolve around travel or getting exposure to broader opportunities or contributing to society or the environment, doing something that's purposeful and meaningful, and that's a real shift with the current younger generation. If you can create some space to unpack that with them, to understand what's important to them, then you've got the opportunity not only to draw the connection between what's important to them and the values of the organisation, so that they can see the connection, but more practically, you can actually show how you can support that individual to meet their personal or their work-related aspirations or goals.
Trudy MacDonald:So an example might be if you asked a younger person where do you see yourself in the future and let's assume that maybe they're engaging in some study while they're working they might say you know what I really want to be in a management or a leadership role at some point in my future.
Trudy MacDonald:That's where I see myself If you could then share with them. Well, one of the things that's really important to us in our business is that everybody's continuing to learn and grow, because we want to make sure that your experience here, for however long it is, is one that's fulfilling for you and is setting you up. How would you feel if, once we get you up to speed in your current role and you're performing that, we start to put a development plan in place for you so that we can start to build the capabilities to set you up onto that leadership or that management track that you're interested in? I think that's a really powerful way to connect people to values. But, as you can see, and as you can imagine if, as a young person, if your employer was making that kind of commitment to you, you're going to be working really hard for them.
Leon Goltsman:Absolutely, I think a good sign of a successful company isn't one that just puts money in the shareholder's pocket, but it's also the one that's creating future leaders and it makes society better because of the way that it treats its staff Absolutely. And that leads me to bringing this up, trudy, that you've always championed the role of continuous development and keeping teams future fit. What practical steps can businesses in regional areas take to promote a learning culture that young professionals genuinely want to be a part of?
Trudy MacDonald:Creating a learning culture is so critical, and I think one of the things I've seen a lot of organizations do in regions is a concept of upward mentoring, and what it is is it's really acknowledging the value and the expertise and the mindsets that our younger people bring into the organisation and recognising that some of us that have been around for a while have a whole lot to learn from the younger generation. So this is about really empowering our younger people and if you can do that with real business challenges, with real business challenges. So an example may be that we want to improve our customer experience and putting that out there as a business problem and getting some younger people to actually work on that initiative with some other more tenured people and engage in upward mentoring. So giving them permission to actually lead the initiative, to put the ideas on the table, to think differently. I think that's one of the most practical things you can do to create a learning culture. It's less about doing further study. It's more about real-time problems and actually bringing your younger people into the conversation and empowering them to actually have a voice and listening to them.
Trudy MacDonald:Now, what that may mean is you may try some things, they may not work. But it's that mindset that if we're going to innovate and if we're going to learn, we will make mistakes. That's part of the process. Let's make it safe to make mistakes and, in fact, let's even celebrate the mistakes, because it means that we're trying different things, which then leads to a really powerful conversation around what have we just learned? And, with that learning, where do we go from here? What are the next steps?
Leon Goltsman:And there's no such thing as a mistake when you actually take it as a learning experience, because sometimes it's because of that that's paved the way to something much bigger and better, and you wouldn't get there unless you actually had that occur to you. Absolutely, I mean, that's kind of been the story of my life. Every time something happens, you kind of look at it, reflect back. I mean, one of the things as well is keeping your journal. Are there any ways that you might recommend for people, not just young people, but anyone who wants to look back and see where they can improve?
Trudy MacDonald:So one of the things that's really powerful is, as we start to move forward in this environment is having a mindset of continuous learning, and for many people, they may not take the time to stop and reflect on what am I doing well and what can I improve on. So there's certainly some techniques that individuals can use. One of those might be journaling, and journaling is really powerful, not only just to get things out of your mind, but to start to think about what am I doing well, where are some areas that I could do better, and then, off the back of that, what's one thing that I could do about this? But let me share with your listeners another really simple framework that I find a lot of individuals will use effectively, and it goes a little bit like this Think back over the last quarter or it might be the last year and think about all of the things that you've been doing at work, specifically how you've been spending your time, and you can ask yourself what's the great work that I've been doing?
Trudy MacDonald:Now, the definition of great work is not great quality. It's about work that's adding future value to the business. So this might be bringing new ideas to the table, or working on strategic initiatives or working on a new product for the business, for example. That would be great work. You can then ask yourself what's the good work that I've been doing? And you can think about the good work as the operational work that you're doing. It's your day job. It's transactional, it's keeping the wheels turning within the business. That might be meeting with customers. It might be making sure that the shop front's clean every day. It might be delivering high-quality products, and I'd like to encourage the listeners to go WOMBAT hunting Now. Wombat is an acronym and it stands for Waste of Money, bandwidth and Time WOMBATs.
Leon Goltsman:I love that. You'll have to give us a link to that if you've got a page on your website.
Trudy MacDonald:Yes, so when you go WOMBAT hunting, I think it's really interesting to say what are all the things that I'm spending time on that are not adding value? It's a waste of money, it's a waste of my bandwidth, it's a waste of my time. Now, the fact that you're doing them doesn't mean that it's not important for the business, however, for individuals thinking about their own role and how they should be spending their time. Often there's work that can be automated. Often there's work that could be delegated to a young person in your team, for example. Often there's work that's unproductive because we're doing rework or we're fixing errors. So getting a list of those things is really powerful.
Trudy MacDonald:And then there's one more question to ask yourself which is what's missing? And I think this is really powerful. And it's asking yourself if I were to be the best leader, the best manager, the best team member, doesn't matter what the role is what's missing? What am I not doing? And often it's because either we don't have time or maybe we don't have the confidence to do these things. Leon, that analysis, so four simple columns great, good, poor and poor is the wombats, and missing is a really powerful way to identify what you're doing well, but also where the gaps are, and the logical outcome of that exercise is to identify just one thing you can change Usually how do I get rid of one wombat and how do I replace that with something that's missing?
Leon Goltsman:And that goes back to what you said earlier you can't manage what you don't measure.
Trudy MacDonald:Correct.
Leon Goltsman:I'm really enjoying this conversation with you and I know that if we could, I'd probably be talking to you all day. I'd probably be talking to you all day, but I'm very, very mindful of your time and Wombat's. But we were just talking about sport and the importance of sports with some other guests and your passion for sport, and I'm seeing a common denominator that jumps out in successful people that sport in some shape or form is a very important part of their life. Now your passion for sport and movement reflects in how you lead and coach others. What lessons from sport have shaped your professional outlook, and how can business leaders apply similar principles to mentoring young talent?
Trudy MacDonald:I think it's interesting because a lot of successful leaders do also have elements of their life that incorporate sport or contribution to society, where they're also high achievers. And Leon, I've spent all of my life engaging in some kind of sport and that's always continued to operate in parallel to my business focus. So in my early days I was a ballerina and I did that for about 20 years and then, just after COVID, I switched over to rowing and I did both sports for a while and then eventually rowing's taken over. So for those listeners who haven't engaged in rowing before, it's one of the most intense exercises. I always thought it was going to be this wonderful, relaxing sport. I've never done anything so intense in my life. But for me it requires training six days a week and often twice a day. So I'm a competitive rower and I think what's really interesting is if I look at the parallels between what's led to my achievements from a sporting perspective and how that links into both the business world but how I coach leaders and young people, there's a few really important lessons that I think cross over both both sides. One is the importance of having goals. So if, if we don't have a goal, if we're not working towards something, it's very quickly, very easy to lose motivation and you find that without that direction, you don't have purpose around what can sometimes be the hard yards. So, whether that be getting up at 5am in the freezing cold in the middle of winter and getting out there and doing the scheduled workout, or whether it be showing up to work and recognising that you know what I've got to make 10 sales calls this morning and I don't really feel like it but it's the discipline of knowing that there's a bigger picture here that I'm working towards. So that would be one thing, and I think in the business world, making sure that everybody has clear goals that they're working towards in the context of their job, but also in the context of their aspirations. So where do I see myself beyond this job? And that may link to some personal goals as well.
Trudy MacDonald:The other thing that I think is so incredibly powerful that crosses both worlds, is recognising that high performance habits actually just set you up with a rhythm and a cadence that makes it easy to do what sometimes would otherwise feel tough. So high performance habits are things such as I will tell myself that if I'm training six days a week, I will commit to myself that I will show up, regardless of how I feel I might be feeling a bit sick, I might be feeling a bit achy and sore, I might be flat. I commit to show up, and what that means is I get up at five in the morning and I get dressed and I go to the shed. Now I give myself permission that once I start doing what I need to do, after 10 minutes if I'm still not feeling it, I give myself permission to stop. But you know how many times that's happened? Never, yeah. So something really powerful happens, that is, if you can embed high performance habits, it actually just becomes easy to do the hard work.
Trudy MacDonald:Now, this relates to the workplace as well. So one of the things that I find is really powerful is time management and time blocking and being very disciplined around how you use your time. So if you were in a leadership role, for example, you may have the habit that when you come to work every morning, the first thing you do is walk around and actually just check in with everybody in your immediate team and check in on how they're going and how they're feeling and if they need any help. Now why would you do that? If I go back to some of the earlier points in this conversation, it's about creating the vibe. It's about making them feel valued. It's about saying I see you and I hear you as a person lifting the culture and that's incredibly valuable to get high performance people. So that might be a high performance habit.
Trudy MacDonald:If I think about somebody who's in a desk job but maybe they're in a business development role, maybe for the first hour of every Thursday they block out and say I'm going to call 10 of my most valued customers and I'm not going to put down that phone until I've been able to talk to 10 of my most valued customers and I'm not going to put down that phone until I've been able to talk to 10 of my customers. And that becomes a habit that you embed. So that would be the other thing that I think translates very well over from sports. So two things number one clear goals, so we know why we're doing what we do. And secondly, locking in the discipline around high performance habits, which is basically another way of thinking about this, is it's the recipe for success. I know if I follow step A, b, c and D, the result will just happen, and that applies equally to both sport as well as the workplace.
Leon Goltsman:I was also thinking teamwork, and when you're especially when you're rowing, you've got a team, and together everyone achieves more. So when you've got every single you're rowing, you've got a team, and together everyone achieves more. So when you've got every single person working and doing their role, as you mentioned, the boat, the vessel is going to go faster. You're going to end up winning and everyone wins.
Trudy MacDonald:Yeah.
Leon Goltsman:Except the people who came second and third.
Trudy MacDonald:And that always happens. That's a reality. We can't always win every time, leon, I think it's a really important point that teamwork in the sporting world equally translates to the workplace, and I do a lot of work with teams to do what I call a reset, because often I find people become very self-interested and they're very focused on me and how I feel and my job and with that, they'll tend to blame others when things go wrong. Often doing a reset can rebuild the sense of team that actually we're in this together, where we're all equal. We've just got different responsibilities and the way that we actually collaborate and communicate and our ways of working are actually going to set us up to get to the ultimate goal that we're looking for and then helping people understand what's in it for me through that journey as well.
Leon Goltsman:And, trudy, I can see why you're a winner in every sense of the word. If there is one key takeaway and one thing that any person, whether they're a young person starting off or a seasoned professional business owner, or a team of business owners, what is that one thing that you'd like them to take away from today?
Trudy MacDonald:I think the one key message that's relevant right now for everybody is that change will continue to accelerate, and for some of us, we get very comfortable doing what we've always done.
Trudy MacDonald:However, if we don't move at least with the pace of change, we risk falling back so far that we actually can become redundant in a way, and what I mean by that is redundant from a work context, meaning that we don't have the skills or the capabilities or the mindset to continue to thrive and even in the sense of our own life, if we're not keeping up with society and the way that we engage, the way that we contribute, how we can be supporting each other, there's risk that we create this divide, and that can lead to people personally experiencing stress, experiencing burnout or feeling directionless in life.
Trudy MacDonald:So one of the things I would encourage everybody to do, regardless of whether you're a young person in the workplace or whether you're an established leader, is to be constantly asking yourself what's the next little risk that I can take? And it can feel like a little risk because it's leaning into the unknown and it's leaning into change, but that's how we improve and inevitably we will make mistakes. However, if we perceive those mistakes as learning opportunities, and that's the richness of life, then I find that it's an opportunity to have a very rich life. It's an opportunity to engage more meaningfully with others, to contribute to society more broadly and get a real sense of fulfillment in that process.
Leon Goltsman:Brilliant advice, a real sense of fulfillment in that process. Brilliant advice Now for anyone who wants to contact you. What's the best way for people to reach out?
Trudy MacDonald:The best way to reach out. If anybody wants to contact me is either via my website, so that's talentcodehrcomau. I do a lot of speaking engagements. I do a lot of coaching, leadership development programs and just supporting leaders to take their businesses to the next level. Or they can reach out to me on LinkedIn, and that's Trudy with a Y MacDonald M-A-C. Or I've got an Instagram account as well, which is Trudy MacDonald Leadership. I post a whole lot of really practical tips up there, so feel free to follow me as well.
Leon Goltsman:Oh, fantastic. Well, Trudy, what I will do for all the listeners is I'm going to put that on the show notes and I'm not even going to say goodbye to you. I'm going to say see you soon, because I know we'll be seeing a lot more of you and I know that Lake Macquarie and other regional parts of Australia not just New South Wales they need you. This isn't an option. All the uncertainties and all the talent that's out there. We can do better, and I know that you are one of those people that's going to bring out the best in everyone. So thank you so much for your time. I really enjoyed this and I look forward to catching up with you again soon.
Trudy MacDonald:Thank you, leon, it's been a real pleasure.
Leon Goltsman:What an insightful conversation with Trudy McDonald, an absolute powerhouse in leadership and organisational psychology, from understanding the mindset behind high performance to building cultures of accountability and trust and recognising the vital role of young employees, especially in our fastest growing regional areas. There's so much more to reflect on from today's episode. If you'd like to connect with trudy or learn more, visit talentcodehrcomau. Find her on linkedin under trudy mcdonald and that's mac m a c, or follow the leadership insights on instagram at trudy MacDonald Leadership.
Leon Goltsman:Next week, we shift gears and welcome Samuel Kulhachi from DNR, a trusted name in energy and air conditioning solutions. Based in Morissette, dnr is known for delivering smart, sustainable systems that are tailored to Australian conditions. Samuel will walk us through how solar and electricity actually work, why location matters and how understanding your setup could save you money and be kinder to the environment. Whether you're already using solar or just starting to explore it, this episode will be full of practical insights you'll want to know about and, before we wrap up, I'd love your feedback. What did you enjoy? What could we do better? Email me directly at leon at ecohq. com. au, because this podcast is as much about your voice as it is about the voices we bring on. And, finally, if you found value in today's episode, please follow Engaging Conversations and share it with your network. Together let's grow a community of forward thinking Australians. Learn, lead and make a real difference. I'm Leon Goltsman, and until next time, stay engaged, stay connected and let's keep building the kind of community we all want to be a part of together.
